The “tournament” is scheduled for Saturday Feb. 21st, in Challis

After reading about the coyote killing contest this Saturday, Feb. 21st, in Challis, sponsored by the Bent Rod Sports, I guess I’ll not be doing any more business there. If you are willing, the groups that put out the press release below, encourage you to call Bent Rod Sports (208.879.2500) and register your protest over the coyote “tournament” described below. Perhaps suggest that a PHOTO CONTEST featuring the best LIVE photo of wildlife taken around Challis, would be a better idea.

*Update: Feb. 23, 2009 on Challis Rod and Gun Coyote “Tournament”:

Before dawn on Saturday, Feb. 21, an observer noted a small number of vehicles in front of Bent Rod Sports in Challis. Eventually about 13 men walked out and headed somewhere to find some coyotes to shoot. The number of coyotes killed is not known. The store isn’t saying, and the local newspaper says it won’t run a story, despite all the protest calls to the Bent Rod and the Challis Chamber of Commerce. There might have been more than 13 hunters, but the event became so secretive, no farther information is known. The location of the evening viewing of the dead coyotes and prize giving was not disclosed by the Bent Rod. There was no opportunity for observers to photograph the hunters and their coyotes.

*Update: Idaho wildlife advocates protest coyote hunt

PRESS RELEASE
February 18, 2009
Hailey, Idaho

CONTACTS:
Brian Ertz, President, Wildlife Watchers, Phone 208.788.2290 Website: http://www.wildlifewatchers.net
Camilla Fox, Director, Project Coyote, Wildlife Consultant, Animal Welfare Institute, Phone 415.690.0338 Websites: http://www.projectcoyote.org http://www.awionline.org
Lynne K. Stone, Director, Boulder-White Clouds Council E-Mail: lstone.bwcc@gmail.com Website: http://www.wildwhiteclouds.org

Wildlife advocates condemn Challis coyote killing “tournament”

221e. COYOTE&RAVEN EDIT.jpg

Coyote and raven near Stanley, Idaho. Photo by Lynne K. Stone, BWCC, Copyright 2008

Wildlife advocates are condemning an upcoming coyote killing “tournament”, scheduled for Saturday, Feb. 21, and sponsored by the Bent Rod Outdoors, a Challis business.

“This event has no place in the 21st Century”, said Brian Ertz, a Hailey resident, and president of Wildlife Watchers, a group that says wildlife viewing, rather than killing, is preferred by the majority of Idahoans. “We are urging concerned citizens to contact the Bent Rod Outdoors (208.879.2500), and also the Challis Chamber of Commerce (208.879.2771) to protest this day-long coyote slaughter.”

The coyote “tournament” was publicized through ads in the Challis Messenger on Feb. 12 and 18. When contacted, a Bent Rod employee stated that there would be prizes including cash for the most coyotes killed, the largest and smallest coyotes, and other categories. Coyote killers would enter the Bent Rod’s “tournament” by paying $25 per person, or $50 for a two-person team. The “contest” starts Saturday morning and ends that evening at Bent Rod Outdoors.

“Coyote contest hunts are ecologically unsound and ethically indefensible,” states Camilla Fox, Founding Director of Project Coyote and Wildlife Consultant with the Animal Welfare Institute. “Such hunts do nothing to reduce coyote populations or conflicts and if anything may serve to increase regional coyote populations.”

Ertz adds: “There’s no fair chase in trapping or calling in coyotes and nobody’s feeding their family with coyote meat. This is a blatant example of animal cruelty, indecency and shows a total lack of respect for life. I’m surprised and disappointed that a business would host an event that celebrates the needless pain and suffering of an animal that’s been called “God’s Dog.”*

“Coyote killing contests are brutal and foster antipathy toward coyotes, degrading them to vermin status, which is antithetical to conservation biology and ecosystem-based science.” said Fox.

The groups say that while coyotes will prey on larger mammals, their diet consists mainly of small mammals including mice, voles, rats, ground squirrels and rabbits– providing free rodent control services to ranchers. The coalition also points out that progressive cattle and sheep ranchers are living with coyotes using non-lethal methods.

Much like wolves, generally, unexploited coyotes may live in social family groups, with only the alpha pair breeding once a year in mid-February and giving birth 63 days later. Other females, though physiologically capable of reproducing, are “behaviorally sterile.” Coyotes respond to lethal control with a number of biological mechanisms, which can result in increased litter size.

In a coyote “contest”, so-called hunters slaughter coyotes using various techniques to attract the coyote into rifle range. This may include using leg hold traps that only have to be checked every 72 hours in Idaho, or a distress call that sounds like an injured animal. Coyotes, like humans, feel a strong bond to other members of their species, and when they hear a cry for help, may come to investigate.

Coyote hunters have also been known to bait in coyotes for “sport” shooting, using livestock that have died from old age, illness, or injury.

The wildlife groups protesting the coyote “tournament” include the Project Coyote, Wildlife Watchers, Boulder-White Clouds Council, Animal Welfare Institute, Big Wildlife, Footloose Montana, Dr. Tom Huhnerkoch/Mountain Cats Trust, Western Watersheds Project, and numerous individuals.

Coyotes have no protection whatsoever under current Idaho law. Coyotes can be run over with a vehicle, including being chased to exhaustion and run over with a snowmobile. When this happened in the Sawtooth Valley several years ago, a photo of the flattened coyote received widespread negative press for the sport of snow-machining.

The wildlife groups protesting the Challis hunt say they have contacted law enforcement officials in the Idaho Dept. of Fish and Game, the U.S. Forest Service and the BLM to make them aware of the coyote killing event planned by the Bent Rod, and urged extra patrols so that the common (though illegal) practice of shooting coyotes off highways and back roads does not occur.

*”God’s Dog” was written by biologist Hope Ryden, published in 1989 by Lyons Press, and is an account of her studies of coyotes in the American West.

228e. AMAZING EDITED..jpg

A coyote paws through deep snow after feeding on a road-killed elk near Stanley, Idaho, Feb. 2008. Photo by Lynne K. Stone, BWCC, Copyright 2008.

More information about the contact groups:

Wildlife Watchers seeks to educate and encourage the ethically and socially responsible enjoyment of wildlife. On the web at http://www.wildlifewatchers.net

Project Coyote is a national non-profit fiscally sponsored project of Earth Island Institute that fosters innovative solutions to help people and coyotes coexist. On the web at http://www.projectcoyote.org

For over 58 years, the Animal Welfare Institute has been the leading voice for animals across the country and on Capitol Hill. Please join us in our ongoing campaigns to reduce the sum total of pain and fear inflicted on animals by humans. Sign up for AWI eAlerts to receive the latest news on what you can do to help us protect all animals: http://www.awionline.org/joinus.

Boulder-White Clouds Council, has worked for over two decades to protect and defend wild lands and wildlife in Idaho’s upper Salmon River Country. Our website has extensive information and rare photos of Idaho’s gray wolves: http://www.wildwhiteclouds.org

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About The Author

Ken Cole

Ken Cole, Buffalo Field Campaign‘s Executive Director, is a 5th generation Idahoan, an avid fly fisherman, wildlife enthusiast, and photographer. He was formerly the Idaho Director for Western Watersheds Project.

132 Responses to Wildlife advocates condemn Challis coyote killing “tournament”

  1. avatar John d. says:

    This is simply vile. No other words for it.

  2. avatar Nathan Hobbs says:

    Ralph,
    I wish I could of had a little bit longer of a heads up of this event. This would of been something good to attend and photograph in efforts of distributing negative publicity about the event and outraging those outside of our state. I would of gladly exercised the freedom of the press to infiltrate this event and document it like the barbaric contest that it is.

  3. avatar Mike says:

    Trash.

    Absolute trash.

  4. avatar Nathan Hobbs says:

    It isn’t much but I am doing what I can to get word out about this horrible event on my website journal at iamidaho.deviantart.com , anyone with a online presence should do the same, with the size of Challis and there dependency upon tourism every call will make a huge difference.

    This is a great time and place to take a stand for Idaho Wildlife!

  5. From what I discovered on the www over the years, coyote killing contests seem to be fairly common and popular events all over the US. From time to time even this blog here picks up the subject, boils it up and….cools it down again, til the next round. It´s high time that somebody is going to stop this!

  6. Is this the Challis, Idaho 83226 , whose Chamber of Commerce advertises “Challis, Idaho — A Small Town with a Big Heart!”? Seems that charming little town derives it´s money from hunting, bird watching and recreational business. Hey, simply stay away for a while!

  7. Peter,

    I think folks from Idaho, who comment here, may have plenty to say about this “small town.”

    We’ll see.

    It’s long been my view that when many politicians in Idaho,including even the U.S. Senators, imagine what their constituents — folks back home believe — they picture not people in Boise, Pocatello, Idaho Falls, Coeur d’Alene or Lewiston, but geographically isolated, population 900, Challis.

  8. avatar Brooke Funk says:

    Most untasteful!

  9. avatar kt says:

    Just wait – If Ken Salazar de-lists wolves – the Idaho Good Old Boys from Challis will hold de facto wolf killing contests. Maybe something like this coyote bloodbath is cover for that going on already???

  10. avatar atlas says:

    This is terrible!

  11. avatar gayle hoskins says:

    Very ugly and sad state of affairs. I pray this event does not take place.

  12. avatar Salle says:

    What do you want to bet that a couple wolves get “accidentally” caught up/killed during this foolish display of rural intellect?

    Or perhaps this is an excuse to do just exactly that.
    This is in Rep. Lenore Barrett’s favorite “spoiled child” portion of her district after all… And she’s the presenter of that ridiculous resolution asking for rapid delisting and the infamous MOU that calls for the removal of all wolves in the state by any means possible.

    Help! Eugenics and Manifest Destiny is alive and well in the rural Rocky Mountains!!!!

  13. avatar Pronghorn says:

    Glad to see that the public land managers were contacted. Some agencies require permits for organized events or contests–permits which can be denied. At least one well-placed call to a federal agency revealed that no permit had been sought for the “Howler Hauler” coyote slaughter contest held recently out of Kalispell.

  14. avatar Lynne Stone says:

    We did contact the USFS and were told that this coyote contest is similar to a “big buck contest” and that no permit was required since no one place was specified. There’s USFS, BLM and a lot of private land around Challis. As KT mentioned, I’ve no doubt that similar “wolf tournaments” will be held once the state finally gets control.

  15. avatar Barb says:

    Defenders of Wildlife surely should be covering this!

  16. avatar Barb says:

    Thanks for info on this!

    I just e-mailed all the major newspapers nationwide (I have a media list) with a link to this story.

    I also called the organization and told the manager or owner that coyote killing has NO PLACE IN THE 21ST CENTURY! He said “Oh, ma’am, we’re not killing ALL the coyotes. That would be impossible!”

    I replied, “Killing ANY animal for fun is reprehensible!”

    THE IGNORANCE IS UNBELIEVABLE!

  17. avatar Barb says:

    I just called the Idaho Governors office as well and his assistant said to send me the link and they would get their game guy on it…… if it’s legal, it will be allowed, even if they don’t approve of it……..

  18. avatar Salle says:

    And that’s the way it goes in Idaho…

  19. avatar kt says:

    Barb, Lynne,

    http://www.hcn.org/issues/349/17076

    Lest we not forget – the High Country News article from last year. About a predator-killing contest in the Owyhees.

    “ … Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife … It’s also killed a lot of coyotes (and can’t wait to go after some wolves)”.

    The drawing for the wolf hunt will be at the very end, so nobody can go sneaking out early,” says Nate Helm, addressing a crowd of about 30 men and women at Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife’s first annual Predator Derby, held in January at the new American Legion Hall. Helm is SFW-Idaho’s executive director, a trim, youthful and redheaded man in his early 30s, the former natural resources coordinator for Idaho U.S. Sen. Larry Craig. Helm’s wife is busy signing up the entrants to the derby with three of the six Helm children in close attendance, camo-clad and well-behaved …”.

    SFW/Helm’s group is practically running the Idaho Fish and Game and are ONE with Butch Otter. THESE are the folks, and this is the mindset, behind things like the Challis coyote killing event.

    I also wonder about the role of Wildlife Services behind the scenes in Challis being amped up even more these days. And I especially wonder about the role of one of their ex-coyote killers who became Mike Crapo’s Natural Resources aid and liaison to the Owyhee Initiative, and who is said to be “managing” a ranch in the Pahsimeroi area – with Challis the closest town.

    I think there was a Talking Heads song … Something about Psycho Killer.

  20. avatar Pronghorn says:

    Did anyone contact the BLM? Their permitting procedure might be different…Challis Field Office 208-879-6200. For what it’s worth.

  21. avatar kt says:

    Pronghorn: That is worth a try. Maybe the State Office. The Challis BLM, with all its Bush-era Managers, is not exactly johnny-on-the-spot with requiring compliance on anything – especially on anything the public lands ranching industry would support – like slaughtering coyotes. The Challis Mgr. is from an Idaho ranching family, the range cons are awful … and the rest of the staff has no power to do anything – in my observation of the sorry state of BLM up there.

  22. avatar Devin says:

    why did my post get deleted? It showed the rediculousness of the coyote hunt idea based on the popularly held idea that man is superior to animals and thus he has a right to kill what he wants.

    Guess there’s no room for comments criticize in a non-traditional manner. real cool

    Devin,

    sarcasm/irony are often hard to communicate with written word – on a website or email. Everyone is welcome to try – I would suggest omitting the ‘hunting human babies’ subject next time if you’d like to maximize the likelihood that it is not misunderstood.

    Webmaster

  23. avatar Devin says:

    Webmaster, that was the whole point of the satire. Animal rights activists have been using the baby killing analogy for years now to show the pathetic nature of man’s claim to superiority over animals.

    Many great literary satires have been written and misunderstood by the masses. No one is actually going to believe that a baby hunting contest is going on in Challis so I don’t know why it was even a problem. But whatever, it is your site. I just thought you’d be more open.

    Devin,

    A Modest Proposal <— an example of a successful attempt

    Webmaster

  24. avatar jerry b says:

    I urge everyone to call the Chamber of Commerce to express your opinion in a civilized way. It IS making a difference (Bent Rod is a member).
    I spoke with the executive director,: she was very willing to listen and wasn’t defensive in the least. 208-879-2771

  25. avatar Layton says:

    “SFW/Helm’s group is practically running the Idaho Fish and Game and are ONE with Butch Otter. THESE are the folks, and this is the mindset, behind things like the Challis coyote killing event.”

    What an out and out crock!!

    kt, if someday you really come up with something to back some of the rumor mongering that you do I will be truly amazed!!

    SFW has mostly gotten their butts kicked by almost all of the sportsman’s orgs in Idaho — they don’t “run” anything.

    Before you go mouthing off about SFW doing this coyote derby thing, maybe you should check things out a bit. Most of these are privately sponsored and the guys that run them make some $$ off of entry fees and the hides.

    NO! I don’t participate in them!! As a matter of fact some folks came to one of the clubs that I belong to and wanted to use our facility for one of the derbys. They were turned down flat!!

    I don’t, however, think that predators are a panacea for what ails wildlife and willows. There are sometimes to many coyotes and sometimes (like now) to many wolves.

    No, wiping them ALL out isn’t the answer, but letting them go unmolested — at the expense of other wildlife, isn’t the correct answer either.

  26. avatar Nathan Hobbs says:

    I wanted to post a few links to online communities in Deviant art that contain hundreds of responses regarding this event. Please be warned as some of the comments and there expressal of outrage include a few expletives.

    Each page is a different Wildlife or Nature photographer and the comments others have left on there page come from around the world many from idaho and surrounding states as well.

    http://kkart.deviantart.com/journal/23285009/#comments

    http://iamidaho.deviantart.com/journal/23280332/

    There are many other smaller threads and pages but these are the two main ones.

    Over reading there comments several have called all that have called are reporting that the office was pleasant and wonderful to deal with being very responsive and listening to the complaints. Those that emailed are receiving the following response from the chamber,

    “Your opposition to the Coyote Hunt is noted.
    Most Sincerely,
    Melissa Perkins Fitzgerald
    Executive Director
    Challis Area Chamber of Commerce
    208-879-2771”

    If there is anything I can do to help focus efforts to the proper sources of those who would listen please let me know as I can update the art community with further instructions. I am sure they would also love to hear from the local agency’s involved in stopping this as well and I will gladly forward a message to them from you via my account there.

  27. avatar Mike Post says:

    These publicized events have been going on for decades in all the states with historic coyote populations. I find it a bit strange that all you folks are so shocked to discover this all of a sudden. All of the commenters here that are exhibiting such outrage and going off on tirades are just make themselves look a bit niave and uninformed. Anyone who has truely educated themselves on chronic wildlife issues would not be in a state of surprise and shock over this. It is old news, and very public news at that. Where you last year when these events went on? And the year before that…

  28. avatar Nathan Hobbs says:

    your right Mike,
    We have been shooting and hunting down just about anything that moves since we landed on this continent hundreds of years ago. We try to wipe out anything that gets in our way and this kind of attitude has been the cause of extinction of many animals the coyote just happens to be resilient enough to have withstood the pressure for this long.

    Its time it stopped.
    While this may be a common occurrence expressing outrage towards it and raising public awareness to those who do not know about it does wonders.

  29. avatar jerry b says:

    Mike Post…Unfortunately “everyone” is not as educated as you are when it comes to wildlife issues. The sources of information such as Ralph’s website and others are educating us “wildlife dummies”. Cut us “commenters” a little slack…hopefully someday we’ll catch up.

  30. avatar Mike says:

    I phoned the Chamber of Commerce and expressed my views. The woman answering the phone sounded like she had been taking many, many calls on this.

    I told her this is was a cruel arcade game, not hunting. I was very polite and she was definitely interested in my comments.

    Hopefully this thing is cancelled.

  31. avatar kt says:

    Nathan Hobbs – I didn’t know about Deviant Art. Great photos at that site.

    I think this kind of predator killing pseudo-machismo crap has really increased as a result of the barbarity of the Bush years. Predators were becoming more accepted. Then along came all manner of Bush war and human rights outrages. Add in the Don Peay and uber-rightwingers funding predator hating groups, and the rile of the livestock industry in promting predator hatred.

    Any progress that was being made in a place like Idaho was quickly reversed. With its crazy rancher-loving wolf-hating Governor, its bizarre congressional delegation including the latest additions:Lyin’ Jim Risch (one of the wealthiest Senators – we’re still trying to figure out where his $$$ come from), and theultra- wimpy “I support wolf de-listing because i am trying to be Righter than Larry Craig” non-Democrat Minnick.

    AND: The Bent Rod should be called the Limp #$%&. You can guess what that stands for …

  32. avatar Tim Rabe says:

    As a wildlife photographer and a lover of life this sickens me. Living in Minnesota and watching how predator hunters think this is a game bothers me to no end. I hope someone takes notice and sees how grotesque this really is.

  33. avatar Elkchaser says:

    If y’all don’t like the coyote contest, that is fine and is your business. Trying to stop a perfectly legal community event is not cool.
    They are not making you go out and shoot the coyotes.

  34. avatar John d. says:

    Neither is wanton barbarism.
    Promoting killing without justification which is not beneficial to the reputation of the state or its denizens.

  35. There is something very wrong with a community when a perfectly legal community event turns out to be a fun mass killing event.

  36. avatar Debra K says:

    And Peter Kiermeir, Challis fits that description of “very wrong” quite well. Its heyday was the 1880s when mining was king, and Challis has been on the downhill slide ever since. There is some amazing wild country around Challis, and great wildlife potential with its varying elevations and low precipitation.

    With its sunny, desert climate, Challis could, for example, be a retirement mecca with an alternative energy focus.
    But locals pretty much hate wolves and enviros, probably in that order, and are resistant to change. Hence this idea of “sport” in the form of wantonly killing wildlife.

  37. avatar Salle says:

    I do recall that there is at least one town in the Great Lakes area, Ohio I think, where the whole town goes out to the perimeter of the town in a circle and march inward killing all the wild animals they encounter on their way to the center of town. they bring their children and it’s quite an event for them.

    Scary to think of what draconian practices are lauded as wholesome tradition…

  38. avatar Barb says:

    I just called the Chamber and the lady took down my info and said she has “received quite a few calls” and is keeping a log.

    Elkchaser — No, you are right — no one is trying to force anyone to enter the contest, but if you feel that animals are just useless targets, you probably don’t belong on this blog as the people who post to this blog RESPECT ANIMALS.

    Personally, I believe you are a troll and should be banned off the site. I’m not trying to be offensive, but you are posting on the WRONG BLOG. Why don’t you go to a blog where more people AGREE with your (outdated) viewpoints?

    I do not wish to get in an argument with you so please do not respond in an attacking way. I am just calling it as I see it. Thank you.

    We try to allow opposing views on this site. Elkchaser, while I don’t agree with their opinion, is welcome to post here. You should see some of the comments that don’t get through 😉 I’ve even thought about posting some of them as a special post all to their own. KC

  39. avatar Barb says:

    BTW, a BIG THANK YOU to EVERYONE who keeps people like myself who care about wildlife informed of issues like this.

    Abuse and harrassment of wildlife (as a “coyote killing contest) certainly does not belong in the 21st century, and should not be happening anywhere in our nation.

    It shows nothing but ignorance and contempt for wildlife.

  40. avatar Barb says:

    I just called BLM and the guy I spoke to said he agrees its wrong but they can’t do anything about it as their deal is

    He recommended to call Idaho Fish and Game: 208-756-2271. I called and the gentleman I spoke to said he also finds it offensive but said “predatory animals” are not protected very much on private property or even BLM land — very liberal laws – disgusting and quite unbelievable that this is happening in the 21st century.

    He said the only way the laws can be changed is to go thru the State Legislator. He said the laws are probably very similar in other western states and the LIVESTOCK industry is the reason for these laws against predatory animals (no surprise there).

    Sickening.

    The laws need to be changed.

  41. avatar outsider says:

    Barb, I don’t want to tip over your apple cart but, who decided which animals are special enough to be saved from hunting or sporting events? Maybe I don’t like yotes, but love snakes and find the who rattler round ups in OK appalling. Or maybe I’ve got a pet rat and just wish that people could see how cute the little buggers really are and would stop traping them with glue boards, and poision. I for one am against most senseless killings but I also understand that there are people out there how will try to kill just about anything. So untill you can draw a line in the sand and are willing to say these animals are ok to kill and these are off limits then I suguest you worry about things that you can accutally effect.

  42. avatar swjags says:

    And here in Colorado there’s fear and plans for gunning coyotes in the suburbs. The Denver paper today reported that “a pet peacock and a 150-pound German shepherd were likely attacked and killed by coyotes.” Wow….

  43. avatar Barb says:

    Yep, I’ve seen that. I’ve personally contacted Greenwood Village (suburb) about their penchant for killing “rouge” coyotes — coyotes are “attacking” small dogs and “stalking” children. Animals cannot be “rouge.”

  44. avatar Barb says:

    We have lots of coyotes near where I live. They will watch me and my dog but I never feel any fear from them or towards them. They are curious — I look — they look — and we go on our way. Wow, big deal.

    And people complaining that coyotes are eating their small dogs should think about actually watching their small dogs and/or keeping them contained instead of letting them run loose and then complaining.

  45. avatar Barb says:

    Outsider, you suggest, “I worry about things I can actually affect?” Well, I think in time, people will stop allowing the cattle industry to dictate that “predatory animals” are “nuisances,” to be done away with at any time, for any reason, and by any means possible, cruel or otherwise.

    I think this board has a number of troubling trolls on it — trying to persuade those who respect animals to think in other ways.

  46. avatar Travis says:

    First off let me state that I am a hunter. Please do not villify me for posting or reading. I am only trying to become more informed regarding both sides of an hotly debated issue.
    I do understand a lot of people have a strong dislike for hunting, and probably just as many a strong like for hunting.
    here goes…

    Is hunting viewed as wanton killing? As some view these hunting tournaments or derbies as senseless how is hunting to supply a food source for ones family viewed? I myself am able to see a difference between the two.
    What about families who hunt/fish as a source for food throughout the year? Is this an act of barbarianism? I hardly think so myself. And in no way is a person who hunts or fishes a redneck uneducated person. I find it unfortunate that both side sling arrows (stereotypes) back and forth at each other.

    I myself as a hunter do not want to get rid of the wolves. Yes they are a magnificent creature. As are many other species of animals found throughout the state. As a group hunters tax themselves to replenish and improve wildlife numbers. As a group I believe we spend more on conservation than any other group through taxing ourselves. That is one reason I as a hunter as do many other outdoorsmen support conservation and habitat improvement projects. We realize how special our animals are to our heritage. Hunters want to protect the lands our animals roam. We want to ensure animals are here for our children and grandchildren. Hunters do not hunt animals just to kill. Some individuals may kill just to kill but in my mind they are not hunters. In my mind I see a clear distinction between hunters and killers. However I do believe a better management plan is needed. In my opinion as it stands now we have no management plan regarding wolves especially. A balance needs to be found in our system between multiple prey and predator species. I see hunting as one tool of many tools available to help find that balance. Humans are a part of that balance. By removing humans/hunting that balance is skewed.

    It is not my intention to stir the pot and call names. I am only trying to become informed as to why some people would view me as barbarian because of my views on hunting.

  47. avatar a friend says:

    OK folks — pay attention.

    Competive hunts on BLM land ANYWHERE in the United States REQUIRE a Special Recreation Permit. When you call any (and all!) BLM offices, cite 43 CFR 8372.1-1. A SPECIFIC area does NOT have to be identified, and these hunts are competitions as defined by 43 CFR 8372.0-5(c).

    A Special Recreation Permit usually requires at least an EA (which requires a 30-day public comment period) — and most competitive hunts couldn’t meet the test required of an EA — that there be no Significant Impact.

    Competitive hunts have been stopped by requiring the federal agency to follow its own regulations for close to 20 years, and some states — such as Montana — no longer ever permit them. The problem is that the BLM often doesn’t know of these hunts.

    That’s where you come in. It is you job to keep your ear to the ground, find out when these go on, and report them. Then require the feds to follow their own policies. It may be too close to this hunt to do anything (the recreation guy in Challis seems to be out for a while) — but you can stop the next one.

    Or, as someone said, there’s always the Idaho State Office. Call now. Operators are standing by….

  48. avatar Ryan says:

    Barb,

    Nothing like a Ra Ra Ra crowd with no disention to spark intelligent debate.

    I’ve hunted, called, and killed alot of coyotes over the years. Ending contests won’t change the numbers that get killed every year. Protective laws wont either as there is no enforcement.

    For all the hits on IDFG, what funds the majority of there budget? Controlling Coyote numbers increases deer and antalope herd sizes which encourages hunters to purchase liscenses and tags which supports there budget. So don’t expect alot of support there.

  49. avatar Pronghorn says:

    This might be sitting in a moderation queue there at the website, so at the risk of its getting posted twice…I asked a friend to do some checking, here’s her advice:

    Competitive hunts on BLM land ANYWHERE in the United States REQUIRE a Special Recreation Permit. When you call any (and all!) BLM offices, cite 43 CFR 8372.1-1. A SPECIFIC area does NOT have to be identified, and these hunts are competitions as defined by 43 CFR 8372.0-5(c).

    A Special Recreation Permit usually requires at least an EA (which requires a 30-day public comment period) — and most competitive hunts couldn’t meet the test required of an EA — that there be no Significant Impact.

    Competitive hunts have been stopped by requiring the federal agency to follow its own regulations for close to 20 years, and some states — such as Montana — no longer ever permit them. The problem is that the BLM often doesn’t know of these hunts.

    That’s where you come in. It is you job to keep your ear to the ground, find out when these go on, and report them. Then require the feds to follow their own policies. It may be too close to this hunt to do anything — but you can stop
    the next one.

    Or, as someone said, there’s always the Idaho State Office. Call now. Operators are standing by….

  50. avatar Barb says:

    Ryan, you are wrong again, sorry!

    You said: “Controlling Coyote numbers increases deer and antalope herd sizes which encourages hunters to purchase liscenses and tags which supports there budget.”

    Man simply cannot ‘CONTROL’ coyote populations! Why can’t people get that thru their little heads?

    It is IMPOSSIBLE.

    In fact, there is strong evidence to the contrary; that artificially trying to reduce coyotes, actually results in an INCREASE in populations — look it up.

    You sound like you’re all for the Alaskan aerial hunt then, too, of wolves.

    How utterly disgusting.

  51. avatar Barb says:

    I am convinced that this board is being overrun by TROLLS desperately trying to “knock some sense” into us “romantics.”

    Try as you may, but your mantra “Kill Animal X to increase populations of Animal Z” does not hold water!

    I’m proud to have BOTH a head AND a heart, unlike some TROLLS posting here who like to pride themselves on their “intellect,” but have simply WRONG information.

  52. avatar Travis says:

    So fill me in…..Would it be the participants or the party putting on the hunt that would need the permit. And if its the participants how does that still come into play if they were on Forest Service property as Forest service is not BLM. Or is Forest service BLM? And if its the organizers that need the permit are they responsible for the participants. I don’t understand the process of the above mentioned permit could more info be supplied so i can look this up to learn more?

  53. avatar Barb says:

    This letter was published last year in the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner re: “Predator Control” (an oxymoron)

    Letters / Fairbanks Daily News-Miner / April 3, 2008

    To the editor:

    I just wanted to express my extreme dismay with the actions of the Board of Game, the governor and the Legislature with respect to the policy of predator control.

    First, I find it offensive that the Board of Game is composed of members who represent one point of view, rather than the diversity of points of view found in Alaska. No board can continue to work in an honest way or with integrity when it does not strive to hear, appreciate and evaluate diverse points of view. In this case, the voice of the people who disapprove of predator control as it is currently set up is systematically ignored.

    Second, I find the current policies regarding predator control immensely offensive, and the arguments are disingenuous. There is little to no scientific basis for this program. It is well-established that animal populations of both prey and predator have cycles of population growth in years with plentiful food sources and population decline in lean years, and they don’t need human management to survive unless they are otherwise threatened. It is also fairly obvious that with increasing numbers of Alaskans who hunt, whether for sustenance or for sport, there are likely to be noted declines in animal populations, including moose.

    At some point, it is necessary to balance subsistence hunting with the increasing human population. To attribute poor moose populations to natural predators, and then to kill those predators for no other reason than to artificially boost prey populations for human consumption or sport is dishonest reasoning.

    From a religious point of view, I find the predator control program unethical. To take a life for no other purpose than to artificially increase our ability to hunt prey is surely not justified, since most of us are not suffering from extreme duress. I believe in subsistence hunting, but I don’t believe this program is managed honestly for that purpose, and I begin to wonder who takes part in this aerial predator control program.

    Hunters? Most hunters I know do not view this as hunting; it certainly is not fair hunting.

    Anna Berge

  54. avatar Travis says:

    Barb..sorry to interrupt your discussion with Ryan but are you saying in your previous post that for example animal x does not have an impact on animal y. Essentially saying x and y are independant of each other and have no affect on each other ever? And if your not how by decreasing amount of x would y not be affected? And is this always the case between all animals or do you have specific species in mind?

  55. avatar Travis says:

    Barb..sorry on the letter from the paper in Anchorage I am not sure of your viewpoint on the letter. If you agree or disagree with it? In a previous post you said killing an animal in an effort to increase another animals numbers does not hold water however in the womens letter she tries to use the argument that that is the goal of the game commision. Is she implying that the killing of one species does increase the numbers of another and the game comission stance on that is incorrect reasoning. Its seems to me you and this other person are contradicting each other. If not could your clear it up for me I am getting confused here?

  56. avatar Ryan says:

    “Ryan, you are wrong again, sorry!

    You said: “Controlling Coyote numbers increases deer and antalope herd sizes which encourages hunters to purchase liscenses and tags which supports there budget.”

    Man simply cannot ‘CONTROL’ coyote populations! Why can’t people get that thru their little heads?

    It is IMPOSSIBLE.

    In fact, there is strong evidence to the contrary; that artificially trying to reduce coyotes, actually results in an INCREASE in populations — look it up.

    You sound like you’re all for the Alaskan aerial hunt then, too, of wolves.

    How utterly disgusting.”

    Prove me wrong barb with actual studies, not letters to the editor.

  57. avatar Barb says:

    OK, and while I am finding my studies, why don’t you show me YOUR studies showing predator control works from CREDIBLE biologists, not from the Alaska Game Board or the Ted Nugent hunting forum or some other goofy good ol’ boy network.

    Either way, if predator ‘control’ is used to help out hunting interests, that is an abuse of tax dollars, not to say extremely unethical.

    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/01-06-2005/0002773763&EDATE=

  58. avatar Barb says:

    Here’s another one that says there is no way to tell either way if it “works” or not as there are too many variables in nature and people can twist the data any way they want….

    http://texnat.tamu.edu/symposia/RoleofPredatorControl/005.pdf

  59. avatar Barb says:

    Regarding artificial removal of coyotes has the OPPOSITE affect:

    http://easterncoyoteresearch.com/downloads/CoyoteManagementLetterToState2007ShortVersion%5b1%5d.pdf
    ***********************
    Wherever humans got the idea that they can manage nature better than nature itself has always a confounding viewpoint………

  60. avatar Barb says:

    Read the 2nd sentence on pg. 1 AFTER the abstract:

    http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/cdcg/pubs/SacksNeale2007.pdf

  61. avatar Ryan says:

    The first one was from Defenders of wildlife, second one said there was many issues.. Third one is from Jon Way (also not an unbiased source he posts on here) I would like to see the 1 study quoted in the last one and see what other variebles were involved.

    So you telling me my uncle ted or ADFG biologists studys are pointless and then you fire back with the same level of credibility on the other side.. Give me a break.

  62. avatar Barb says:

    Hey, Ryan, let me see some evidence on your side — that “oredator control” works…. I am waiting with bated breath……

    anyone with common sense knows that predator control DOES NOT WORK. It never has, never will. Ask local governments dealing with coyotes if their “predator control” programs have worked………. they’ve given up, hon.

    Ecclesiastes 3:18-20
    As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. Man’s fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal…All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return…

  63. avatar Barb says:

    Ryan,

    Show me ONE study that shows it “works.”

    You are obviously connected to the ag or livestock business somehow.

  64. avatar Barb says:

    http://ga4.org/guardians/notice-description.tcl?newsletter_id=22975065

    All you’ve done is look for excuses why my evidence isn’t “credible,” typical of a TROLL.

    Admit it Ryan, you’re in the livestock business or associated with it.

  65. avatar Barb says:

    Ryan,

    How much more evidence would you like before you ADMIT that predator control does NOT work?

    Repeat: Predator Control does NOT work.

    Repeat: Predator Control does NOT work.

    http://www.predatordefense.org/docs/coyotes_letter_Dr_Crabtree_11-04-97.pdf

    I’m still waiting for YOUR evidence that it “works.” I think I may be waiting quite a long time……………….

    I love coyotes BTW. 🙂

  66. avatar Ryan says:

    Here is one from a source you don’t like..

    http://www.adfg.state.ak.us/news/2007/3-21-07_nr.php

    Robus cited the predator control program’s success in recent years as one reason that wolves are harder to find this winter. Since 2003, more than 600 wolves have been removed, contributing to improving trends in several ungulate populations. For example, in the McGrath area, Division biologists have observed an increase in moose density and improved calf survival since predator control was reinstated.

    http://www.deltawaterfowl.org/pr/news/030703_minneapolis.php

    Here is a couple for you.. You can love Coyotes till your blue in the face. I’m still going to smoke them onsite.

    BTW I do commercial construction for a living, fight range cattle and sheep in my home state at every meeting I can go to.

  67. avatar Barb says:

    Why are you on a blog then where people RESPECT and wish to PROTECT animals, particularly predatory ones?\\\

    You didn’t like my sources either, although they were Ph.D. scientists at universities.

    You’re a waste of time to talk to, Ryan. I have better things to do than waste my breath on you. Adios!

  68. avatar JB says:

    Barb said (on another post): “Logic needs to reign in matters of farming and ranching.”

    I would like logic to reign, period. Now please tell me the logic behind allowing wild horses to exist on wild lands in N. America?

    Ryan: We agree more often than you think!

  69. avatar kt says:

    Ryan seems to have been assigned harassment duty – it seems the SFW types and others rotate in that position, at times.

    Predator control only causes more problems. Kill the coyotes and you will get a skunk, or mouse, or some other kind of PROBLEM.

    Ain’t too gloriously manly to go on a skunk shoot now, is it? Bring back the pelts to the bar, and all that.

    Age ’em. Who done shot the oldest skunk?

    Also: I was Googling the fishing shop that is sponsoring this, and saw a link that seemed to indicate they did guiding for poeple vacationing in Sun Valley. Does anyone know if that is the case? If so, is there any way to get their Guiding business black-listed/boycotted?

  70. avatar Ryan says:

    Killed skunks to KT, don’t brag about doing either. BTW coyotes aren’t worth skinning the pelts are only worth about 10.00 a piece this year.

    Barb,
    This blog is about issues that affect the west including range land issues, forest protection, and other valuable issues that I like to keep updated on. I always look at the source, the ADFG source and delta wild life stories came from scientists which I would bet a few are PHD’s too. I learned a long time ago that most studies are started to prove a point already in a researchers mind or to fuel an agenda. Look no father than the 100K + studies done on salmon on the columbia. They all say something different depending on the studys founder.

  71. avatar John d. says:

    Ryan kills anything that moves apparently…

  72. avatar smalltownID says:

    Barb,

    I love how you begged for evidence to the point of taunting and received it, THEN decided he was a waste of breath. You may not realize it but many of you polarize the issue with your conspiracy theories that demonstrate how out of touch you are. The people who are changing the paradigm in the rural west are folks like Ryan who can empathize with folks who might go to one of these events and help them view predator control as a low on the totem pole in terms of conservation and management. For those of you getting “educated on wildlife” here in the west you might want to think of that before you do more harm than good. If anything, you have inspired more people to go to the derby while they talk to their buddies about the “sun valley” demographic who is calling this a secret wolf culling. All for calling the fish and game, blm and voicing your opinion and doing your part but some of the comments do more harm than good.

  73. avatar Virginia says:

    Ryan “smokes them onsite” – wow! What a tough guy you are. It is sad that you find so little value in wildlife – after all, coyotes are wildlife as much as the all of the other animals that you “smoke.”

  74. avatar Travis says:

    I understand this is a posting place for those who oppose hunting. But why is it that when challenged from someone with a differing oppinion who shows sources as credible as those speaking out against hunting namecalling is resorted too. Sometimes a nice friendly debate is healthy. As a hunter is saddens me to think that others are trying to take away my opportunites to hunt. I myself am not advocating that anybodies elses rights are infringed and frustrated that some people are trying to do that to hunters. At some point hunters will stand up and make their voices heard

  75. avatar Jay says:

    That’s where you’re wrong, wildlife consists of stuff you can shoot and mount the heads on the wall. Everything else is just target practice.

    Ryan, just curious, do you get a rush of joy when you pull the trigger and hear the yelp of pain, followed by the writhing death throes? I bet you do…it really makes me sick to think that there’s folks like you out there that take some much satisfaction out of taking life. I’ve killed plenty of deer and elk, but I do it for food, and I always feel that moment of hesitation before I shoot knowing what I’m about to do is going to result in the death of an animal that wants to survive just as badly as you and I. But, I guess you have to have a little compassion and cognitive ability that extends beyond your own selfish little self to think such thoughts.

  76. avatar Ryan says:

    Jay,

    Its no different than killing a mouse in your cupboard, its not enjoyable but its a requirement to get the right to hunt on most ranches that I hunt. My mentor taught me how to call coyotes and skin them over the years, he made his living for many years as a trapper. As for killing skunks I’ve probably killed 15 or 20 over the years out of the chicken coop and live traps. BTW, they don’t yelp, they just cease to exist. This year I didn’t hunt coyotes because the pelts weren’t worth anything.

  77. avatar Jay says:

    I guess that’s a start Ryan…I suppose taking their pelts at least adds a little justification, rather than just shooting them because they’re there and it’s fun to make stuff bleed. As far a going out and killing a coyote is the same as killing a mouse in your cupboard, that’s a stretch, don’t you think? If you had a coyote in your cupboard, maybe then I could see the comparison.

  78. avatar Barb says:

    Ryan, no offense but you sound really ignorant, like you’re from the last century.

    A coyote, at least in my book, is much “higher” than a mouse. It’s like comparing an insect to a horse. But when I find mice in my house, I don’t kill them — I just pick them up with something and toss them outside. I do kill mosquitos and spiders, etc.

  79. avatar Barb says:

    I love watching coyotes and listening to them yap at night. They are very cool animals.

  80. avatar outsider says:

    Barb I’m so glad you have been anointed to decided what animals are “higher” and deserve to live

  81. avatar Barb says:

    Outsider: Thanks, glad you’re happy. I think there might be some common sense used in matters of such. So you probably believe then that MAN is the highest, correct? Man is an animal too, on the food chain.

    http://network.bestfriends.org/Petitions/Detail.aspx?gu=religion&pn=6&g=922d350e41804f64aa372d2805b912c1

  82. avatar Barb says:

    It seems compassion has completely flown out the window as far as how our society deals with animals — they’re only as good as what they can PROVIDE FOR US.

    How selfish.

    ….. factory farming has to be one of the worst offenses……….

    Cramming chickens together in tiny cages where they can’t even flap their wings for their entire lives, cutting their beaks off so they don’t peck eachother…… forcing calves into a tiny dark area so they can’t even turn around and starving them to make “veal,” they never see the sun or feel the grass on their hooves………..injecting cattle with hormones so they produce more milk (but die earlier)……. cutting off animals testicles out of cruelty or as part of culture (They showed this on the TV show “No Reservations” when the host Tony was in Argentina), skinning animals alive for their fur……………the list goes on and on and on……. I’ve even heard some advocate for shooting cattle on public lands….

    In this way, we rate the LOWEST on the scale.

  83. avatar outsider says:

    Barb compassion is one thing, absurdity is a whole other ball of wax. Would you like us to go back to the stone ages, if you dislike this this great counties agricultal practices so much move someplace else where they are more humain. Oh wait this is the best place to be an animal and we do treat our animals and livestock with respect, most of us anyhow.

  84. avatar Barb says:

    Outsider, I am hardly the only one in the U.S. who is against factory farming.

    We have a very long way to go in our ag practices to improve the compassion index!

    Since I don’t live in the other countries, I can’t have much of an effect there except to e-mail those in authority when I hear of things thru organizations such as IDA, etc.

    And saying that “we’re the best” so we needn’t change is unacceptable!

    What makes a country GREAT is STRIVING FOR CONSTANT IMPROVEMENT — not an attitude of “We’re great, if you don’t like it, leave.”

    No country will continue to be great with that kind of attitude.

    PS: Just curious — Do you pride yourself on being a “conservative?”

  85. avatar Barb says:

    So anyone in your view who thinks we need improvement in one area should move out of the U.S. then, Outsider?

    That doesn’t even make sense………..

  86. avatar outsider says:

    nope you missed my point completely, I’m saying if you really have a problem with animal cuerlty you might want to look at the worest offenders first where the most can be done instead of pestering the place where animals held in a far higher regard

  87. avatar outsider says:

    mother tereas didn’t help the homeless and starving in America she went were she could do the most good, india

  88. avatar Barb says:

    And you missed my point. I cannot AFFECT POLICY in other nations. I choose to spend my time working on U.S. issues, since I am an American.

    I believe in constant striving for improvement in my own backyard. If there are children starving in Virginia, why would I first help children in other countries? Charity begins at home.

  89. avatar Barb says:

    “pestering the place…” who am I “pestering?”

    If livestock owners treat their animals decently, and use non-lethal means to deal with predators, they would not have a problem with anything I’ve said whatsoever.

  90. avatar outsider says:

    yes charity does begin at home but the level of offenses that your complaining about would be a gigantic step up in treatment compared to most other counties. Did you know that in indoniesa it complace to hang up dogs and beat them to death so they will be more tender when they are eaten? I don’t know about you but thats just “F” inn wronge and I get way more pissed off about that than I do about some dumb a## rednecks shoting a few yotes. There I’m on my soap box and DONE.

  91. avatar outsider says:

    read three cups of tee and then try to tell me you can’t enfuence other counties and have an effect on other people

  92. avatar Barb says:

    I have written to that government many times about that horrendous issue — it outrages and sickens me. I can’t afford to travel there and protest in person.

    “shooting a few yotes?” That makes it sound like it’s OK. Why shoot an animal unless it is directly attacking you?

  93. avatar JimT says:

    YouTube has become a very powerful tool in the battle against all sorts of social wrongs, including animal cruelty. I would suggest that if anyone is brave..foolhardy?..enough to attend this exercise in what is the absolute worst about the human species and take a video on a camera phone, and post it on YouTube..it would be viral, as the techies say. Look what the Defenders use of YouTube for the wolf hunting in Alaska has done in the court of public opinion, and that is one of the battlefronts in this war, in addition to legal and legislative. It took one person to throw a monkey wrench in the works of the oil leases. Perhaps there is a Hayduke out there yet…

  94. avatar Barb says:

    Great idea JimT. If anyone can find any footage of this Challis event, please post it to YouTube — or anything else that is abhorrent and needs to be stopped. It is very true that visuals certainly have a stronger effect than just words.

  95. avatar JB says:

    JimT,

    It has already been done. The documentary film, which is powerful, is called “Killing Coyote.” It was produced by High Plains films (www.highplainsfilms.org) and is worth every penny.

    You can see the theatrical trailer here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQs3wtZzXoQ

  96. avatar John d. says:

    Unfortunately the success of the anti aerial wolf hunting is due to the fact that Defenders of Wildlife is a well known and, for the most part, trusted (apart from the ‘you don’t live here’ ‘it’s predator control’ crowd). Individual posters will not get as much of a productive response because they are simply the average Joe ‘Blogs’, Youtube makes people think but not necessarily act.

  97. avatar ProWolf in WY says:

    What time period do we live in? I was looking for a job a couple of years ago and there was one in Challis. The potential supervisor (with a Masters degree nonetheless) said that if you hike in the woods you need to take pepper spray or a pistol because there are so many wolves. I guess carrying a basket for Grandma is bad too and you shouldn’t wear a red hood either. So I guess I am not surprised to hear this. That is not to say that I think everyone in Idaho is like this, I know there are good people there. I am just not surprised. I am a hunter but any true hunter knows that you do not hunt for sport like that and only keep what you can use.

  98. avatar Barb says:

    I fear drunken good ol’ boy hunters much more than I would fear most of wolves. Wolves, like any animal, senses fear. If you fear any wild animal, it will naturally (as nature intended) see you as prey.

  99. avatar Salle says:

    Hmmm…

    I don’t think that just because you show fear that a predator is predisposed to treat you like prey.

    It would appear that there would be other elements to a predator attacking a human, like maybe you’re half dead already… I don’t know of any case where a human has actually been eaten, let alone attacked (in North America at least) by a wolf or wolves. I think that human fear may be the source of what may be interpreted as a possible attack but was nothing of the sort. Somewhere on this blog, some time ago, this issue was discussed and some observers of this blog submitted stories and photos of wolves investigating them because the wolves didn’t know what they were. the wolves ran toward them but veered away at the last moment when they recognized the humans for what they were, “not food”. In the case of rabies or something unusual like that might have a different outcome. Even some grizzly bears that attacked and may have killed humans were actually ill or had bad teeth etc…

    I don’t think that just sensing that you are fearful prompts them to attack. I think that’s a myth that needs busting.

  100. avatar JB says:

    Salle,

    See the below article…

    Wolf-human interactions in Alaska and Canada: a review of the case history

    Abstract: After gray wolves (Canis lupus) were extirpated over a large portion of their North American range during the early 1900s, researchers reviewed the history of wolf-human encounters and concluded that wild, free-ranging wolves posed little or no threat to human safety. However, documented cases of wolf aggression toward people have recently increased, indicating a need for further examination of wolf-human interactions. I reviewed 80 cases of wolf-human encounters and compared behaviors of wild wolves that interacted with people in different contexts in Alaska and Canada. Only 1 case of unprovoked wolf aggression was documented between 1900 and 1969, but 18 cases of unprovoked wolf aggression toward people occurred between 1969 and 2000, including 3 cases of serious injury to children since 1996. Increases in wolf protection, human activities in wolf habitat, and wolf numbers occurred concurrently with increases in unprovoked aggressive encounters. Aggressive behavior was documented in all regions and among all wolf subspecies of Alaska and Canada. Wolves rarely vocalized during unprovoked aggressive encounters, but wolves that were defending dens consistently displayed loud vocalizations. Behavior of rabid wolves was variable and ranged from stubborn, persistent approaches to prolonged attacks. Habituation contributed to unprovoked wolf aggression toward people in 11 cases; nonhabituated wolves in remote areas displayed unprovoked aggression in 7 cases. Where wolves are protected and frequently encounter people, some level of negative conditioning should be applied to prevent habituated and food-conditioned behaviors in wolves.

    McNay (2002) Wildlife Society Bulletin vol. 30, no3, pp. 831-843.

  101. avatar Elkchaser says:

    Barb – Sorry to burst your bubble, but the conditions for this blog do not exclude hunters, meat eaters, conservatives, or whatever pisses you off. I am merely posting my thoughts and experiences that obviously don’t match yours. Kind of ironic that you are the one calling names don’t you think?

  102. avatar Ryan says:

    “Ryan, no offense but you sound really ignorant, like you’re from the last century.”

    Really I’m ignorant because I have a different view than you. I was raised in the country and am dam proud of it. I know where my food come from and that all things in life are cute and cuddly as they seem. Your new found veganaritsm is harder on the enviroment by a dam sight than eating beef the was either privately raised of spent a small portion of its life on public lands. Big farms do 10 times the ecosystem destruction of a ranch small private farm. Eating vegtables from the supermarket comes at the expense of all species that were not the vegtable of choice. This means pesticides, fertilizers, and faming implements mostly funded by big oil. Not to mention rampant erosion and the killing of millions of rodents, birds, and insects. Life is not black and white, every action has its consequences.

  103. avatar John d. says:

    Ryan

    She doesn’t kill for fun.

  104. avatar Barb says:

    ElkChaser — sorry, was I talking to you somewhere? I don’t know what your comment is referring to.

    And Ryan, if you read my posting at all, you would clearly see that I am for the smaller farms — particularly organic ones, and against big agribusiness that treats animals like dirt. I buy a lot of locally grown food too. So we are on the same side in this issue, but I don’t eat much meat at all, and that is a good thing — for me, the animals, and the environment.

  105. avatar Ryan says:

    I’m glad you feel good about yourself. The mule deer steak I ate last night was fantastic.. The best part is there was no fertilizer, fencing off public lands, no massive ecosystem destruction, ect involved in its raising. Just a few gallons of gas and some planning on my part to get it.

    I kill for food and to protect my food or to protect my personal property as a general rule John. Some how I sleep like a baby ecery night.

  106. avatar Barb says:

    Great, have a nice day.

  107. avatar John d. says:

    “I kill for food and to protect my food or to protect my personal property as a general rule John. Some how I sleep like a baby every night.”

    You don’t eat coyotes. You go out into the wilderness to kill something that never came close to your pets (shooting in residential areas is illegal or so I hear), then go home, have a titter over it and you sleep like a baby because you don’t believe you have done anything wrong by killing something deemed by others to be a ‘varmint’. Prior parental or peer guidance also contribute to this mentality, that such unnecessary violent behaviour is morally justified by the reasons you have stated.

    Coyote shooting has not stopped any depredations on livestock or household pets nor has it had any impact on the coyote population as a whole. However, the molestation of coyotes in a more localised sense allows rodent and invasive species populations to sky-rocket – thus more human intervention is required when the situation could have been avoided.

    Hunting of ungulates takes its toll on wildlife and the landscape. Predators are removed to increase ‘game’ herds which quickly leads to a destabilised population of large herbivorous species, stripping the land of vegetation which then leads to erosion and loss of quality in the soil. Smaller mammals, insects, amphibians, reptiles and bird life depend on the predation of larger herbivorous mammals in order for protection from predators, reproducing and rearing offspring.

  108. Pre-pubertal inauguration rites. Get a few sixpacks, lot´s of ammo, a (preferably white) Toyota pickup and have fun shooting at something……

  109. avatar John d. says:

    I’ve seen the car itself be that ‘something’.

  110. avatar Barb says:

    John D- Very well said! And ditto regarding your comments about those like Ryan who shoot animals for the fun of it. Perhaps Ryan thinks he is doing a “society service” by indiscriminately shooting coyotes and makes himself feel good that way?

    It reminds me of the mentality of those who shoot prairie dogs for “target practice.” In fact, I believe Wyoming has legal and state sponsored games of shooting prairie dogs if I recall correctly.

    Ryan is taking up a lot of bandwidth on this blog and I think it would be better if most people IGNORED HIS comments, which are obviously meant to shock or inflame those of us who appreciate and respect predatory animals like wolves and coyotes.

    I have always found it ironic that those who claim to hate wolves because they think they are so dangerous — what about all the other wild animals? I personally would feel safer being in close proximity to several wolves than just one mountain lion. I love and respect all these animals, any wild animal can be dangerous to humans, including elk and even deer. But that is no reason to look for a particular animal with the intention of shooting them them for no reason except that the person holds a PERSONAL GRUDGE against them.

  111. avatar Barb says:

    Ryan, this is the last time I will respond to you. Here is all the information in a 150-page report recently submitted to the new administration — please educate yourself:

    http://www.wildearthguardians.org/Portals/0/support_docs/report_WOWR_2_09.pdf

  112. avatar Cord says:

    Barb,

    What does your last link to the report on WS have to do with the coyote derby in Challis?

  113. avatar Ryan says:

    Barb,
    Please edcuate yourself about how dangerous wolve can be.. (its from a non biased source as the one you posted for me to “educate” my self with)

    http://rliv.com/wolf/GeistWhenDangerous.pdf

  114. avatar Brian Ertz says:

    I’ll just say that I’ve hunted for food – and plan to continue to do so. My family has long strong roots learning/experiencing Idaho’s backcountry – it’s a part of who I am. Personally, I find no moral objection to doing so – I know there are probably those that would disagree with me, even those who worked with me on bringing this event to attention.

    This event has nothing to do with hunting, nothing to do with that heritage – it’s a different thing altogether, and I find it offensive that IDFG & others, including this business & those who would defend it, would hijack this idea of a hunting culture – an idea that to me has more to do with the character of Idaho’s landscape & wildlife, to shrowd it’s contemp for predators.

    My experience hiking/backpacking – but originally hunting and fishing with my father and brothers – is what first gave me a keen eye as to the sad condition of habitat left in the wake of livestock. My experience hiking/backpacking – but originally hunting and fishing with my father and brothers – is where my deep respect and sense of awe and appreciation for Idaho’s wildlife – life -originates. Events like these trivialize that – and l found it necessary to be involved in publicly condemning this when an ad in the Callis Messenger was brought to my attention. Can you imagine ? The 21st Century ! and a public business puts an ad in a public paper celebrating a culture of death – a predator slaughter, with prizes for the most, biggest, smallest, etc. This public display is deserving of public scrutiny, and it’s a spit in the face to legit hunters who value life for anyone to defend it by trying to pretend like this criticism was leveled against hunters as a whole.

    Unfortunately, I think since Kempthorne’s leadership as governor of this state, we have borne witness to a politicized game & fish department that has fostered this kind of antipathy for life, and particularly – predators, that has consciously aligned itself behind the paradigm of Livestock’s Culture of Death – they have commodified the activity of hunting, and so there is no room for reverence – game management has become an agricultural endeavor so just as predators are slaughtered to “protect” livestock – so too, to “protect” “wild”-stock.

    In my idealist world, I imagine an event like this spurring IDFG itself to issue a press-release critical of such trivial killing – the department should be that concerned with maintaining a clean image for Idaho’s hunting community – of upholding the image of some baseline standard of ethics. Instead, it engenders the opposite, extending associative legitimacy to such disgrace, with its posture toward wolves.

    I’d prowdly stand next to the most compassionate animal-rights activist demonstrating fervent reverence for life, rather than in any fathomable way become associated with this culture of death that is quickly becoming both a guiding principle and symptom of Idaho’s game management leadership.

  115. avatar Barb says:

    Great posting, Brian — Many people including myself (that do not hunt) respect those who properly and legally hunt for food, not for fun, to get ‘back’ at hated animals, or for trophy.

  116. …Oh No, please, not Valerius Geist and his Russian friends again!

  117. When I returned to Idaho to begin my career in the 1970s, I found a state verging on becoming progressive with a top notch Fish and Game department.

    Beginning in 1994 the state government’s support for real wildlife just collapsed as did economic opportunity for those raised in Idaho, although the economy appeared to be healthy because of the continued flight of “home equity refugees” from other states.

    The cause, in my opinion, was that the state turned a bright red in an election sweep that will not change until enough Idahoans are reduced to utter privation and misery.

  118. avatar Salle says:

    Peter,

    Absolutely!! Geist seems to be willing to rubber-stamp whomever has the political upper hand in determining wolves and their actions and danger level. I used to cite him when writing about ungulates but would decline to do so after seeing how he investigated and reported that faux wolf death in Alberta a couple years back.

    Oh no indeed.

  119. avatar John d. says:

    Alberta is hardly an unbiased source, they consider wolves vermin for a start and use every method available to eradicate them. Fear mongering is one of the methods.

  120. avatar Ryan says:

    John D.

    That article I posted is crap, it came off the save our elk website. Same as the propaganda piece posted by wild earth guradians.

  121. avatar Barb says:

    WildEarth Guardians is not “propaganda.” Their facts and statistics are exactly right on. Of course they have a viewpoint; aren’t they entitled to their viewpoint?

    Pretty much every group has a viewpoint. Complete neutrality is pretty much unheard of — ex: in final reports the group has researched and is using scientific information from biologists, scientists, etc. and putting their own spin on it. Every group does it — including and especially “Wildlife Services.”

    I find it funny how SaveBears has criticized me, accusing me of dismissing anyone who doesn’t agree; your last posting is clearly opinionated.

  122. avatar DB says:

    Has the Idaho Wildlife Federation come out against this Challis thing? They should and probably would have back in the 60’s when they were the force behind creating a non-politized Fish and Game Commission. Unfortunately we don’t have sportsmen/activists like Ted Trueblood, Ernie Day, and Bruce Bowler, the leaders in fostering that top notch FG department anymore. I wonder if many of us would listen to them anyway, we’ve become so polarized in our points of view.

  123. avatar Cord says:

    Barb — Really? Are you a biologist?

  124. avatar Save bears says:

    Barb,

    I have had nothing to do with this topic, please leave me out of it.

  125. avatar mike says:

    WHATEVER HAPPENED ON THE 21ST?

  126. avatar Brian Ertz says:

    mike,

    i put an update up top.

  127. avatar John d. says:

    There’s a sure fire bet they wouldn’t have gone underground if the even had not attracted such bad attention.

  128. avatar John d. says:

    correction: event

  129. avatar Ryan says:

    I believe the winning team had 3 coyotes, there were 4 teams tied at 2 and then it was down hill from there.

  130. avatar Lynne Stone says:

    What I heard from a couple of reliable sources re. the “coyote tournament” was that the total dead coyote count was three with one two-man team shooting two coyotes, and another team getting one coyote.

    So, the word is that the tournament was considered “a bust”. But, quite a few people who used to shop at Bent Rod Sports have said they will no longer give them any business, and will urge their friends to also boycott the place. Since Challis is a town of 900 people, and the big mine that’s located nearby is on the skids because of low moly prices, losing even a few customers has to hurt.

    I’ve since discovered the SE Idaho Mule Deer Foundation (based in Pocatello, Idaho) website promoting its 2009 Valentine’s Day Massacre Coyote Calling Contest. Here’s the link: http://www.semuley.org/

    The website features a “limited edition” t-shirt showing a drawing of a coyote with a hole in its middle to mark the group’s “historic event”.

    Perhaps in the future, if coyote supporters can find out about coyote killing events in advance, then e-mails and calls of protest to the sponsoring entity can be made. The AP press release about the Challis Idaho coyote hunt appeared all over the country.

  131. avatar Brian Ertz says:

    An hour ago my sister stopped at a rest-stop on highway 20 near its junction with 75 – on the way to Fairfield – my boys needed to go to the bathroom. On the way in, my 6 and 8 year old boys pointed out two beheaded coyote carcasses to my sister, who is taking them to the city for the weekend. They’re laid out in plain site in the snow – at a public rest-stop…

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‎"At some point we must draw a line across the ground of our home and our being, drive a spear into the land and say to the bulldozers, earthmovers, government and corporations, “thus far and no further.” If we do not, we shall later feel, instead of pride, the regret of Thoreau, that good but overly-bookish man, who wrote, near the end of his life, “If I repent of anything it is likely to be my good behaviour."

~ Edward Abbey

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