A Project of Sage Steppe Wild
I won’t bother to say the obvious about the danger of dogs versus wolves.
Killer dogs attack. Idaho Statesman.
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Dr. Ralph Maughan is professor emeritus of political science at Idaho State University. He was a Western Watersheds Project Board Member off and on for many years, and was also its President for several years. For a long time he produced Ralph Maughan’s Wolf Report. He was a founder of the Greater Yellowstone Coalition. He and Jackie Johnson Maughan wrote three editions of “Hiking Idaho.” He also wrote “Beyond the Tetons” and “Backpacking Wyoming’s Teton and Washakie Wilderness.” He created and is the administrator of The Wildlife News.
Comments
This comment isn’t directed at anyone (there’s no one TO direct it to!), but is just a general observation:
While it is noble to defend wolves, it is not noble to attack pit bulls. Pits are as peaceable toward humans as wolves are wary of humans. Dogs who attack were trained to do so by unpeaceable people. So … I hope we don’t degenerate into a dogs-vs.-wolves campaign that displays ignorance of the gentle, loyal pit bull.
That said, I feel very very sorry and sad for the woman from Truth or Consequences. Poor thing, she had to have been terrified (as animals are when they are attacked by humans or by carnivores).
The town she lived in is aptly named for purposes of this discussion, isn’t it.
Pitbulls are good dogs, but they get a bad reputation from some who are biased against them for one reason or another. ANY dog no matter what the breed and how trained it may or may not be can attack for whatever the reason. Just like some give wolves a bad reputation, the same is done against pitbulls. Some take the actions of a few and lump the whole breed together. We need to do away with this thinking.
I believe most of us here would use this incident to point out that the hysteria surrounding the possibility of a wolf attack on humans is so overblown when compared to actual attacks or injuries caused by domesticated animals whether it be dogs, horses, cattle, cats.
In this case, the town of Truth or Consequences NM happens to be located just east of the Mexican Gray Wolf Recovery Area, and people in these parts seem to have a hysterical fear of the Mexican Gray Wolf staking out school bus stops, elderly care facilities, post office parking lots, and libraries. Wolf proof bus stop shelters have actually been built in at least one community in the Mex. Gray Wolf Recovery area in NM. Deep down I believe these hysterical actions are nothing more than publicity grabbing theater and a way to scare the crap out of kids and elderly in order to further their anti-wolf agenda….thru lies and fear mongering of course. Truth, and the mental health of the children and elderly, be damned.
I’m sorry, but I will be contrary here. This one breed of dog has made it difficult for anyone to have any of the other so called “dangerous” breeds of dog. It is a breed that is growing in number, in particular with the folks of macho thug mentality and folks who have no idea how to socialize a dog.
I’ve asked a Chicago area vet if he sees many Pit Bulls in his practice, and he says no as most PB owners in his neck of the woods don’t even bring them in for vet care.
There exists a big difference between wolves and Pit Bulls. When a dog abounds in such large numbers, in particular in association with those who should not own one, it’s a bad combination. Too many people have dogs, and for that matter kids, who should not have one. Unfortunately for Pit Bulls, they fall into this parameter and cause more destruction than any other breed of dog or mutt.
No bias here whatsoever.
Do you have pets? It seems a bit unfair to say that only certain segments of society should be able to enjoy “man’s best friend”. Kind of like Al Gore telling us to reduce our carbon footprint as he lounges in his mansions and flying in private jets…I’m getting tired of these elitists telling us it’s only okay for them to enjoy the finer things in life, not us, the peasant class.
Wolf Mod,
Elitist- No.
Responsible – Yes
Over 4 million dogs euthanized in this country each year, most due to poor matches between owner and dog.
Who then decides who can have dogs? Only people that earn above a certain amount? Who have a achieved a certain level of education? Only those who own homes?
People on this site are the ones who will decide which class of people can own pets? Why can anyone own pets? Seems very selfish, breeding animals for our own amusement.
My Dad has always “owned” german shephards. He will only own that breed of dog due to there loyalty, intelligence, and look. The problem is out of the 5 he’s had in the past15 years, 2 have had to be put down due to hip dysplasia. Now, let me tell you that the dogs are treated better than his own kids were while growing up lol. Believe me, it was due to no fault of the owner.
Pretty much my point is that ZPG, controlling people’s eating habits, and deciding who can/can not have pets are 3 things that will never occur in a free society. Then again, it seems that our society is losing it’s freedoms at a rapid pace. That, and we will be surpassed as the largest economy in the world in 2016. Cool!
Huh,
If people want to eat, drink and smoke themselves into oblivion, that’s their business.
When you take the responsibility of another life, that’s something else. Again, over 4 million dogs euthanized in this country each year. Puppy mills all over. Certain breeds owned for all the wrong reasons.
When people complain about schools and teachers, teachers only have the kids for so long. If it’s not reinforced/stressed at home, good luck.
Perhaps common sense is missing from too many people.
There should be a “license” to own animals, as there is to drive a car. A person should prove they have the mental capacity to care for an animal. This goes for anything- horses, dogs, cats, etc.
Of course cases could be made for people who rescue strays and care for them, but these people are already showing their ability to care.
I have no doubt that as the human race evolves, there will be tests to determine if an owner can provide the proper care for other living creatures.
I agree Mike. Everytime one takes a bite of a burger or cuts into a juicy steak, that person is indirectly responsible for the death of that animal. Hmmm, I’m tired and not sure what my point is, other than saying that there is no way to regulate pets. Instead, the government should just up the fines for animal neglect along w/ a minimum jail sentence or community service.
I worked in an animal shelter for a few months and the shelter probably had 60% pitbulls- most not adoptable because they were so poorly trained and mishandled by their owners. Ears cut off because they had been trained for fighting etc.
You should have to pass a test and get a license to own a dog (like getting a license to drive). If you bring the dog to a shelter for a frivolous reason (some people dumped dogs in the shelter because they didnt like the sound of their barks!) or you mistreat it the license should be revoked for life.
I would say there are huge segments of this population that should not be allowed to own dogs. It is dangerous for them and deadly for the dogs.
The pitbull is not even considered the most dangerous dog, but they do get all the press when one of them attacks someone. Pitbulls are not bad dogs and a lot of people have them without any problems happening. I see some saying that all pitbulls should be killed because they are all dangerous and this is nonsense.
http://gilygily.com/worlds-10-most-dangerous-dog-breeds.html
Presa Canario
This breed looks terrifying. I wonder how they would do against a single wolf.
A while back I wanted to know what would win between a Brown Bear and a Lion and Tiger. The lion whooped the tigers butt every time, but the brown bear usually beat the lion. They did this stuff back in the old days. Would be interesting to know what would win between a gorilla and a brown bear. I think a brown bear would win, but who knows.
Jon, A Presa Canario and a pit bull would both would kill a wolf very quickly. It would be no match. Citation: My own head! scary. Don’t you think a wolf is outmatched? they are too lanky and vulnerable.
You think a 60 pound pitbull would kill a single 110 pound male gray wolf? I don’t know about that.
Yes I do. No doubt about it. Where’s Michael Vick when ya need him…Sorry bad joke.
tigers outweigh lions and there have been cases where tigers and lions fought and the tiger won. Male lions are fighters, but the tiger is stronger and weighs more. An african male lion would lose to an amur tiger or a bengal tiger.
I imagine mastiffs can be very dangerous too as they weigh 200 plus pounds some of them.
I remember reading an historical account of a California Grizzly being matched against a male African Lion back in the territorial days. The grizzly killed the lion.
I don’t believe any domestic dog would stand a chance against a wild wolf that is use to making a killing for living.
I would add the grizzly was a captured wild bear and the lion it killed was from a circus
Hopefully these people who pitted these animals against each other in cages didn’t contribute to the gene pool.
Wolf Mod,
Were you part of the ZPG discussion at all? I’ve got a German Shepherd. Well socialized animal and I can trust a new born with him. That is a result of a lot of work, a lot of tough love, and reinforcement that for the most part is positive.
Because of the bad press that comes with Pit bulls, I was almost denied home insurance. The breed has become a pox in some areas. For fear of sounding like Gillette, a dog of sound temperment, with a good owner is a wonderful example of how two species can work together.
People have said to me, well, you’ve got a shepherd, and they carry a heavy rap as well. They sure do. That said, look at all the work they do, because it is a very trainable breed, unless your unfortunate enough to get one that has had the brains bred out of him/her.
I’ve got a dog for the sake of a companion capable of doing work, carrying a pack in warm weather, pulling a sled in Winter, that i can trust in any given situation, even when he has been face to face 50 yards away from a wolf. It takes time to get your dog to respond well in those situations.
Too many dog owners in general, and Pit Bull owners in particular, have their dog or breed of dog for all the wrong reasons.
Immer: It is those macho thugs that give the bad reputation on pitbulls. According to pitbull experts in San Francisco (who worked with Michael Vick’s pits), they are one of the top 5 most loyal dogs to their owners. I have a pit (along with a maltese and three cats), and he would never attack anyone unless I trained him to. It is not the breed, it is the idiots (as you mentioned) that train these dogs to do what some do. Yes, they are born with natural powerful strength, but they have to be taught how to use it in a negative way. I have read many articles related to dog fighting, and almost all of them have mentioned that it is not the dogs that want to fight, it is their willingness to please their owners. Detrot is right up there when it comes to the amount of dog fightings in the country. I once emailed the lead investigator who cracks down dog fightings in the city and asked him this question. He responded the same way the articles did. It angers me when I am walking my pit and see people’s faces filled with fear because of what they hear on the news from pits who were trained to fight and be ferocious.
wolf moderate: ” It seems a bit unfair to say that only certain segments of society should be able to enjoy “man’s best friend”” It’s also unfair for that dog to be neglected, beaten, trained in a certain way that could cause in his/her death, etc. Only the ones who truly care for the best well-being for the dog and can maintain the dogs health should have a dog. That is why now you cannot just adpot a dog, you have to go through an application and in many instances, the shelter has to come to your home to check the surroundings. Is it fair to say that if a woman cannot take care of her baby then she should let someone else who can?
Also, I am pretty big, but hoyce gracie would absolutely kill me in a fight. He’s only 6’1″ and about 170 pounds, but consistently (used to, he retired a while back) beats guys that are 6’6 300+. Size doesn’t matter, hasn’t your gf told you that!
you know rickson gracie?
I do believe size does matter. Do you think an animal like an allosaurus would have a chance against a fully grown t-rex? about supercroc vs. a saltie of today? or a great white vs. megladon. see, size does indeed matter.
Ha! Hoyce Gracie……..you are going back to classic UFC. He put Jiu-Jitsu on the map. Back in those days some participants would actually list their discipline as “street fighter”
Real UFC was when there was no weight classes. I don’t even watch it now days. Not the same.
Through no fault of their own, many pitbulls are much more dangerous to people than wolves. There are millions of pits in the US, so even if only a small portion of them are dangerous, it still adds up to a lot of dogs.
In low-income areas across the country, pit-bull fighting is a big deal. On top of that, they are also a symbol of toughness which causes them to end up in the hands of questionable dog owners. I’ve known a few guys with vicious personalities who owned pits and did not treat them well.
You can go to almost any dog shelter on the west coast and find a disproportionate number of pitbulls. Most of them will be euthanized.
I agree with that 100%. I should mention there are many more pitbulls today than wolves and you are more likely to run into a pitbull than a wolf unless you spend all of your time out in the wild where there are a lot of wolves. My question to all on here is you would you be more scared running into a wild wolf or a pitbull and why?
wolf*
There are over a million dog bites per year that require medical attention. However, some folks will worry much more about their kid coming within five miles of a pile of wolf shit. It just goes to show that many people hold beliefs based on emotions instead of facts.
I’ve run into wild wolves many times, only time I felt any tingle of fear was when I had a pack of eight come toward me and my dog on a lake one Winter in MN. When they stopped ~100 m away, it was just cool to watch them. Long story with this one that should be published soon.
Singletons, never a bit of fear, just wonder.
Pit Bulls, one has come after me, another after my dog.
I have no fear of wolves.
Immer,
Do you think it was your dog that attracted them? That sounds like quite an experience. I’ve talked to people in northern Minnesota who said that you could spend a lot of time in the woods and never see a wolf due to the density of the forest.
Daniel,
My dog and I were strapped into sleds. Wolves came around a bend from the southeast about 200 m distant. They were running, cavorting, just enjoying the day and came to an abrupt halt < 100 m away. Looked at each other for 10 to 20 seconds, and then turned around and walked back around the island.
That night they took down a moose calf across from where I was camped. Howling went on all night. They'd stop, I'd howl and get them going again. The wolves knew I was there all night and when they dispersed.
Immer: I have run into wolves in different states and provinces, but have been lucky enough that each time eye contact was made there was no threat of aggression from them. Now, if I had any of my two dogs with me then that all may have changed, but who knows?
wolf moderate: “Real UFC was when there was no weight classes. I don’t even watch it now days. Not the same.” Man, you are right on on that statement. But, I still watch it when I get the chance.
Also, I heard that some places wouldn’t insure your house if you have a pitbull living in it. Some places have even banned people from owning pitbulls.
Touchy to get insurance, in some areas, with any big dog now, largely because of Pits and another breed.
I’ve been chased by pitbulls a couple times. In once instance I had to get on the roof of a car. I was jogging at night both times.
Pitbulls aren’t even a recognized breed of dog. They are a ” variety”. They and all varieties of Grey Wolves need to band together and get a good publicist who can put out the positive spin , since their bloody canine reputations are so amplified and distorted to the negative.
Here’s a tabulation I found when searching for ” human deaths from animals” from a few years back, Lower 48 states. Watch out for those deadly wasps and bees. Please note the > 30 human deaths due to allegedly domestic dogs ( Of course the 0.5 attributed to Bear….1 death from a bear every two years ….needs to be updated. Grizzlies killed two people within 75 miles of my town of Cody last year in separate incidents
Average Number of Deaths per Year in the U.S:
Bee/Wasp 53
Dogs 31
Spider 6.5
Rattlesnake 5.5
Mountain lion 1
Shark 1
Alligator 0.3
Bear 0.5
Scorpion 0.5
Centipede 0.5
Elephant 0.25
Wolf 0.1
Horse 20
Bull 3 ( all at Rodeos!)
The wolf death had to have been caused by a captive wolf. I don’t recall a death from a wild wolf in the lower 48 for many years.
What’s the deal with centipedes?
A guy was killed by a mountain goat last year as well.
Poisonous centipedes.
“Hmmm, I’m tired and not sure what my point is, other than saying that there is no way to regulate pets. Instead, the government should just up the fines for animal neglect along w/ a minimum jail sentence or community service.”
Well that sure sounds like one way to regulate people’s pet ownership to me. I agree with IT, freedom does not mean not using those freedoms in a responsible way. If you can’t handle your freedom’s you should not be too surprised that those who can don’t have a problem with taking yours’ away.
And this issue has very little or nothing to do with the size of our economy.
“And this issue has very little or nothing to do with the size of our economy.”
I guess you are right. It’s just kind of fun waiting till’ “IT” goes down! As our economy shrinks, the amount of money that we will have for all of these programs (Which is the cause of the US’ demise in the first place…IMO) will also shrink. So, in a round about way, economy size does matter. 9-10 months till’ meltdown 😉
Wolf Mod,
What does responsible pet ownership have to do with the economy?
OK, the economy
Clinton surplus. “W” tax cuts, 2 unfunded wars, and a bail out of financial institutions that were anything but forthright, and unfortunately the last three items all continued by Obama.
If there is a melt down, those who have benefitted the most from the tax cuts, and gave nothing in return, will have no place to hide, except outside of the country.
As you enjoy your fries, welcome to Walmart.
Not blaming it all on Obama, in fact in many ways Bush was worse. Anywho, sorry I brought up the economy. Just getting ready for what is coming, hope you all are also.
I worked at Mc’D’s through high school, so don’t eat fast food often, but am ashamed that I shop at Walmart though:(