Reader generated wildlife news beginning on July 25, 2019

It is time to create a new page of “Reader Generated Wildlife News.” Do not post copyrighted material.

Here is the link to to the “old” wildlife news page that began on April 9, 2019 From there you can access links to the many older pages of wildlife news readers created.

Please post your wildlife news in the comments below

 
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About The Author

Ralph Maughan

Dr. Ralph Maughan is professor emeritus of political science at Idaho State University with specialties in natural resource politics, public opinion, interest groups, political parties, voting and elections. Aside from academic publications, he is author or co-author of three hiking/backpacking guides, and he is past President of the Western Watersheds Project.

327 Responses to Do you have some interesting wildlife news? July 25, 2019

  1. TUESDAY, JULY 23, 2019

    APHIS USDA Administrator Announces Several Senior Leadership Changes As Trump Prepares Apparently To Fire 100’s of Scientists That Don’t Agree With Him, what about mad cow type disease tse prion?

    https://usdameatexport.blogspot.com/2019/07/aphis-usda-administrator-announces.html

  2. avatar Ralph Maughan says:

    Another frightening,disgusting,and angering Trump slap against our health, our country, and our environment.

  3. avatar Nancy says:

    Lest we forget, the madman in the White House has an agenda……..

    “Although Hitler is dead, the theories that he espoused remain alive. With the modern tools being developed by biologists and other scientists, it is important for young people to be made aware that knowledge can be manipulated and turned into tools of destruction.

    In every generation, educating the young is an awesome task. Today, with new scientific advances, the rapid spread of knowledge through computer networks, and the ability to alter the material being transmitted, it is more important than ever that students learn to think for themselves. Part of that learning process should include the devastating effects of prejudice. A true understanding of the history of the Holocaust would make that lesson clear”

    https://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/publications/se/5906/590606.html

  4. avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

    New survey methods will help produce the first estimate of total wolf numbers since 2015
    https://www.idahocountyfreepress.com/outdoors/new-survey-methods-will-help-produce-the-first-estimate-of/article_7cee62e0-ad9a-11e9-9419-8b9c464efb55.html

    In recent months, Fish and Game staff have deployed over 800 game cameras in a high-density grid throughout the state, which will take millions of pictures. When Fish and Game staff collect the cameras at the end of September, researchers will download and analyze the photos and apply statistical modeling to estimate the population. 

    Sifting through millions of photos will be labor intensive, but Fish and Game Wildlife Research Manager Mark Hurley is aiming to early next year have the most robust and accurate count of wolves ever in Idaho, and the first scientific population estimate since 2015. 

    • avatar WM says:

      Very expensive effort, and they still won’t be able to get sufficient geographic coverage even with so many cameras to get an accurate count. And, who is going to make the identifications to identify unique individuals – will they use FBI facial recognition software? Won’t this be a hoot to watch unfold?

      • avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

        learn some basic wolf ecology in the first place

        • avatar WM says:

          Mareks, I have been watching wolf population monitoring in ID since the reintroduction. Even had communications with the then IDFG wolf coordinator Steve Nadeau back in the 1990’s. He told me, with their collaring program at the time, there were no wolves in areas where I had seen them. No wolves were relfected in their annual reports to USFWS at the time. The following year, they acknowleged the re wolves where they thought there were none before. Scat, tracks and kill sites confirmed my assertion, since we had taken pictures and gave them coordinates. Don’t lecture me on wolf ecology, sport.

          • avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

            lol

            don’t spread the same old ‘argument’ of yours as the only proof of your knowledge of wolf ecology

            it’s obvious that you cannot apply even the basic wolf ecology to evaluate the given wolf monitoring / survey methodology

            get a grip

      • avatar Hiker says:

        And yet if they didn’t try to count wolves other people might complain about any management planning they attempt.

  5. avatar Nancy says:

    A look back……and yeah, definitely some wildlife news in this “recap”

    https://consortiumnews.com/2019/07/24/the-great-reckoning/

  6. avatar idaursine says:

    Here we go again. Not the most opportune time:

    “Officials at Theodore Roosevelt National Park say the 17-year-old girl from Colorado was on a trail Saturday and walked between two bull bison that had been fighting.”

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/another-tourist-injured-by-bison-at-a-national-park-second-such-incident-in-a-week/ar-AAF1hxh?ocid=spartandhp

  7. avatar Bruce Bowen says:

    https://academic.oup.com/jnen/article/77/1/64/4633865

    The above link goes to a scientific report by the LSU veterinary team, (led by Dr. Frank Bastian), that is working on discovering the cause of transmissable spongiform encephalopathy (TSE).

    Much of the literature to date assumes that TSE’s are caused specifically by rogue prions. This may not be the case. The LSU team discovered a “Spiroplasma spp.” of organism. These are tiny filterable, wall-less bacteria which the LSU team consistently found to be associated with TSE. This bacteria is even smaller than some viruses and is very difficult to detect. It is quite possible that this bacteria damages normal prion tissue to form abnormal prion protein in this complicated disease process.

    Chronic Wasting Disease continues to spread, and as it spreads, the probability of this disease infecting other species of animals and humans increases. It is a very dangerous decision on Trumps part to weaken the USDA and other scientific departments.

    It is bad enough to see our beautiful native animals suffer and die but there is still the growing possibility that the livestock industry will be devastated and that more humans will succumb to this stealthy killer.

    Our president who acts like a cross between P.T. Barnum and Adolf Hitler and his myopic, die hard cheer leaders in the republican congress, have got to go if we are to survive much longer.

    • avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

      Does the US have a pet tiger problem?
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44444016

      There may be more captive tigers in the US than wild ones in the rest of the world. But in states like Texas that bristle at government interference, no-one really knows how many are being kept as pets.

      … Taj is one of as many as 7 000 tigers living in the US either in zoos or privately owned, according to some estimates. That’s nearly double the estimated 3 890 tigers still prowling in the wild around the world.

      • avatar idaursine says:

        I wish this could be stopped – no one has the ‘right’ to keep an animal like a tiger as a pet, it’s abuse. Only a first-rate accredited zoo (and I have mixed feelings about that). 🙁

        The best is their natural habitat.

    • avatar idaursine says:

      This is something to be proud of. I just read about one being beaten to death in a rural area, but still – I’m glad to see the population overall is growing and protected, and important for the world to know about:

      https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/india-tigers-modi-scli-intl

  8. avatar Nancy says:

    FYI – FWP ENCOURAGING people to sign up and take advantage of killing wolves in the state of Montana.

    “In addition to license and permit requirements, a person must attend and complete a wolf trapping certification class before setting any trap for a wolf in Montana.

    Completion of either the Idaho or Montana wolf trapping certification class will be recognized as meeting this requirement. A certificate will be awarded to those completing the Montana trapping certification class”

    http://fwp.mt.gov/news/newsReleases/education/nr_0876.html

    • avatar Hiker says:

      Over 1 billion people in India. It’s smaller than the U.S.A. I am surprised they have any wildlife at all. And yet 1 person may have died from wounds inflicted by a wolf.

    • avatar Hiker says:

      Tigers kill more people per year in India. why do you focus on what wolves do?

      • avatar WM says:

        Because there are those who strongly deny that wolves will attack humans. Doesn’t happen often, probably in many areas where humans interact with wolves. But it does happen and has likely happened throughout human history. Then there are all those events including testing would be prey, and almost attacks that are never reported and won’t show up in any recorded history. My cousin, a truthful guy from what I know, talked about getting an elk last year during archery season and being stalked by a pack of 5-7 wolves for a four mile trip out of the woods with an elk quarter on his back. Go figure.

        PS. I know nothing about tigers, and have no skin in the game, so to speak. On the other hand, wolves are in my back yard, and where I hunt. I have no fear of personally being attacked by one or more wolves, by the way. I think the risk is extremely low, and I think common sense and historic data support that conclusion that many others hold.

        • avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

          from WA Wolf plan

          p. 114

          Predicted Levels of Wolf Predation on Ungulates in Washington

          “Total populations of 50 and 100 wolves are expected to have minor overall impacts on Washington’s ungulate populations. Fifty wolves may kill about 425-630 elk and 700-1,050 deer per year, with annual take doubling for 100 wolves (see Table 13 for an explanation of these estimates). These
          levels of predation could result in noticeable effects on elk and deer abundance in some localized areas occupied by wolf packs, but should not have broad-scale impacts. These levels of loss potentially represent 1-2% of the state’s elk population and less than 1% of the combined deer population. With larger populations of wolves, greater numbers of ungulates would be removed annually, with perhaps 1,700-3,800 elk and 2,800-6,300 deer taken if 200-300 wolves became re-established (Table 13).

          Populations of 50 to 100 wolves should have few negative effects on big game hunting in Washington, as demonstrated by the relatively small estimated take of ungulates described above (by comparison, Washington hunters kill about 7,900 elk and 38,600 deer annually). As noted elsewhere
          (Creel and Winnie 2005, Mao et al. 2005, Proffitt et al. 2009), wolves may also cause some redistribution of game, which could make these species somewhat less vulnerable to hunter harvest.
          However, these impacts together would be restricted to the relatively few areas occupied by packs during the early to middle stages of recovery and would probably not reduce statewide harvests of elk and deer by more than 1-3%.

          • avatar WM says:

            And yet the WA wolf population in 2019, Mareks, is well over the 50-100 used in the WA wolf plan, to show relative impact.

            So, how many elk, deer, and of course cows, sheep, dogs, etc. do you suppose the wolf population in WA will take when it closes in on 250-300 in just a couple more years? Officially the 2018 population, according to WDFW is a MINIMUM of 126 individual wolves, 27 packs, and 15 successful breeding pairs. Add another 10-15 percent, plus wolves in Indian Country and we are closer to reality.

            • avatar Hiker says:

              “Relative impact” What a joke WM. There are so many impacts on elk, deer, and cattle that far surpass wolves. Hunting, weather, disease, accidents, all cause way more cattle and deer, elk deaths then wolves. Give it a rest.

            • avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

              2016 – 115 wolves
              2017 – 122 wolves
              2018 – 126 wolves

              and WA survey does include 10%-15% lone wolves:
              “The annual survey includes lone wolves. WDFW multiplies the minimum
              documented count by 12.5% to account for unknown wolves on the landscape.”

              “WDFW investigators confirmed 11 cattle and one sheep as being killed by wolves during the year.”

              Bottom line:do not shit through your mouth, lawyer

              • avatar WM says:

                WA estimates just like OR and everywhere else are MINIMUMS.

                Wolf population year 2 = wolf pop year 1 + births – deaths +/- net migration.

                How many wolves were killed by WDFW or their contractors in any given year for getting in trouble?

                How many wolves died by poachers in WA?

                How many wolves are in Indian Country and not counted by WA in thier counts?

                How many wolves were killed in Indian Country, reported and unreported?
                https://www.king5.com/article/tech/science/environment/wolves-making-faster-comeback-than-expected-in-washington-state/281-c47ac53d-ee19-476b-825c-96408148c699

                You forgot the injured but not killed livestock and domestic animals Mareks.

                • avatar Hiker says:

                  How many wolves is enough? Enough to not be inbred. Enough to survive. Enough…How many cows are enough? Enough with all the cows on our land!!

                • avatar WM says:

                  The alleged inbred argument was long ago dismissed, Hiker, by many geneticists early on in the wolf reintroduction. IN fact those geneticists were so pissed at wolf advocates who erroneously raised the argument in the early Montana litigation before Federal Judge Malloy they felt compelled to call bullslhit on it:
                  https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/A-novel-assessment-of-population-structure-and-gene-vonHoldt-Stahler/3dfccf45a322dae90b4af568521ccce032f6bfd2

                  Connectivity of WA wolves to Canada, ID and OR ensure that. Transplantation in WA is also a part of the wolf management plan, though not done to date.

                  Cows, well that is a continuing area of conflict with producers exercising their legal right to private property, and public lands, while experiencing increased operating costs absent for many decades.

                • avatar idaursine says:

                  How much is it gonna cost the taxpayers?

                • avatar idaursine says:

                  ^^the (now-yearly) wolf removals, I mean? At one time it was 10K?

                • avatar Hiker says:

                  WM, fair enough about inbreeding, but not enough. All this drama about WA wolves. Mostly it’s about cattle grazing on OUR land. Legal rights? If it’s a RIGHT to graze on OUR land, that RIGHT can be and should be changed.

                • avatar WM says:

                  Ida, that is an excellent question, because the possibility of having too many wolves in too many places was not addressed, to my knowledge, in the NRM reintroduction EIS. Of course, the feds were paying for the planning, management and control mostly with grants, employees and cost-shares, and now the costs have shifted in large part to the states, and will likely shift even more if a national delisting is complete (except the Mexican wolf in AZ and NM).

                  The pressure to eliminate grazing on public lands as wolf populations increased and greater conflict was perceived with livestock operators was also not part of a full EIS on wolf reintroduction, either. And yet, it is front and center in the hot issues presented today. And, this is why, long ago Ralph postulated that wolf reintroduction is about much more than the survival of the species at levels to meet Endangered Species Act legal objectives.

                • avatar Hiker says:

                  WM, Ralph posted that because there’s a conflict of interest on OUR public lands. Forest Service lands are supposed to be multiuse, but emphasize grazing and logging way more than ecology. They seem to be operating like it’s the previous century (and maybe even the one before that). Wake up! We are losing numerous species every year. Every endangered species is about more than that one animal, it’s about how that one animal effects the whole. With wolves their effects are obvious to us, but we’re losing bugs that are every bit as crucial.

                • avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

                  Wolves on tribal lands ARE included in annual survey – you do not know what you are talking about and have been caught with your pants down again and again and again, lol

                  “Each year’s population total reflects population losses as well as population gains. WDFW documented 12 mortalities during 2018, including four removed by the department in response to wolf-caused livestock deaths; six legally killed by tribal hunters; and two other human-caused deaths that remained under investigation when this report was prepared.”

                  “Wolves that inhabit tribal lands in the Eastern Washington recovery area are managed by those specific tribal entities.”

                • avatar Nancy says:

                  And you forget the dying & dead livestock (from many other causes; weather, respiratory disease, boneyards, calving complications and even injuries from trucking to remote locations) that more often than not, lead to wolf depredation, WM.

                  Montana has somewhere in the neighborhood of 900 wolves and Livestock losses, from wolves, is about the same as its been for years – minute, given how many cows are on the landscape – and most of the depredation seems to occur over and over on the same ranches or public land grazing allotments. Why do you suppose that is?

                • avatar WM says:

                  The Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 applies to all eligible federal lands. And then there is FLPMA for BLM. Don’t forget the Forest Service is in the Department of Agriculture – notwithstanding multiple use, they are largely in the business of tree farming, and to some extent livestock interests. BLM, of course, is in Interior, but they too have a resource use loyalty that is part of the persona of the West.

                  Years ago, when this forum had a broader interest spectrum and drew more learned commentors, we had some pretty good discussions of some of these topics. The dialog community, unfortunately, is smaller now, and maybe not even as experienced or well-educated. I find that sad.

                  I see some advocacy groups, lead by some outfit out of Maryland(?) just filed suit in Seattle (King County) over the new wolf kill order in NE WA by WDFW under the Commission’s wolf management plan. Haven’t seen the complaint yet. Interesting choice to sue in King rather than Thurston County, the county where the state capitol is and the decisions are made by WDFW administrators. Maybe this is really all about delay, as the state will likely want to move the case to Olympia.

                • avatar Hiker says:

                  WM, now we’re uneducated? Is that what we do here, insult each other? Yes the FS is tree farming and grazing. Is that really what Americans want? I think if people really knew what these agencies do in their name things would be different. That’s why I post here, many people who don’t post read our words and take heart. Endlessly obsessing about what you perceive as problems with wolves only serves those with economic agendas toward OUR public lands. Is that your goal? Is that your loyalty? Do you really take the side of welfare ranchers who continue to abuse OUR public land?

        • avatar Hiker says:

          Hey, you brought up the wolves in India, not me. If you’re going to bring something up here expect others to think critically about it. Your focus on the problems wolves cause makes me wonder why you feel that way. I too have encountered wolves in the wild and they always fled from me quickly. Granted I wasn’t hauling a bloody carcass like your cousin but you’ve told that story here before and like before I must say HE WAS NOT ATTACKED. Yes, attacks happen, but Moose and Bison attacks are way more common. In other countries it’s Hippos or Tigers. Wolf attacks are WAY down on the list of dangerous animals. At the top of that list are: Humans, dogs, Moose, Elk, Bison, Lions, Tigers, and Bears (oh my). My suggestion to you is that if you are that afraid of Wolves avoid where they live. I do the same when I visit L.A.

          • avatar WM says:

            Hiker, you must have missed my statement above. I’ll say it again: “I have no fear of personally being attacked by one or more wolves, by the way.”

            And, I agree with Elk375’s post as well. I made no statement about risk relative to other danger risks which are statistically way more likely to produce bad results for some human.

            • avatar Hiker says:

              I read what you wrote but your constant negativity about wolves stems from something, I suggest unrecognized fear.

              Wolves do more good for any ecosystem they’re in then all hunters in the same area. Our conquest of Nature continues to cause widespread, unintended problems. Wildlife, better neighbors than many people.

              • avatar Yvette says:

                ++ Hiker.

                One thing I haven’t seen in this thread between you and WM is any mention of Diamond M Ranch or the powerful McIrvine family. The McIrvines have intentionally set out salt blocks wolf dens to get to increase the likelihood of a wolf/cattle incidence. They know they that the wolves will be killed if they lose a cow.

                Wasn’t there a WSU professor who studied wolves who lost his TENURED position over that a few years ago?

                The law is on the side of agriculture and the culture of open range cattle. The federal laws work for the ag industry. We can amend laws even though it is near impossible. We need to try. There are too many serious stressors hitting wildlife and habitat. Soon there won’t be much of anything left but humans, cows and cockroaches.

                And I have nothing against poor cows.

                • avatar Yvette says:

                  The McIrvines have intentionally set out salt blocks nearwolf dens to get to increase the likelihood of a wolf/cattle incidence.

                  ^^ hopefully corrected typos

                • avatar Hiker says:

                  Thanks Yvette. Yes, as was reported here by someone else, there is a professor whose work was shutdown because of his position on wolves. Those are the real heroes, risking career and safety to speak the truth.

                • avatar WM says:

                  Yvette, is it a true fact Diamand M put salt blocks down to attract cattle to denning wolves?

                  This article seems to suggest otherwise, with WDFW refuting the assertion, and yes Dr. Weilgus is mentioned in it.

                  http://nwsportsmanmag.com/more-cattle-attacks-in-ferry-co/

                • avatar WM says:

                  Oh heck, Yvette, let’s just go to a direct quote from WDFW on the location of the salt blocks and other deterrent efforts PLEASE READ FOR CONTENT:

                  -The producer calves outside of occupied wolf areas and cow-calf pairs are trucked to the grazing site. Calving outside occupied wolf areas protects calves when they are first born and most vulnerable to depredation;

                  -The turnout date for grazing on the U.S. Forest Service allotment is June 1; the producer delayed turnout of the livestock until June 15

                  -As part of this producer’s business model, cattle are bred early, so calves are generally around 200 lbs. at turnout. Delayed turnout and early calving are considered proactive conflict mitigation measures because the calves are larger and less vulnerable.

                  -Additionally, deer fawns, elk calves, and moose calves become available as prey in mid-June;

                  -Removal of sick and/or injured cattle when discovered;

                  -Since turnout, the cattle have been in three main groups—two around salting sites and one around a watering site. The salting sites are predetermined by the U.S. Forest Service and have been used historically, so even if the salt was removed, the cattle have a strong fidelity to the site and familiarity with the location from salt in the ground.

                  – Accordingly, WDFW wildlife conflict specialists deployed Fox lights to deter wolves from these areas on June 23;
                  Between June 17 and July 6, regular patrols of the area were coordinated among the producer (at least four days), the Ferry-Stevens County Wildlife Specialist (four days), and department staff (five days); and

                  -The department has a contracted range rider who monitors the producer’s cattle. The range rider had been deployed to a different (but adjacent) allotment in the OPT territory. Since the depredation confirmed on July 6, the department redirected the range rider to the grazing area where the depredation took place.

                  -Although not considered a deterrence measure, the grazing rotation on the allotment this season diverts cattle away from wolf rendezvous sites identified in previous years (per the U.S. Forest Service).

                  For more information go here – Source: https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/at-risk/species-recovery/gray-wolf/updates/wdfw-director-reauthorizes-lethal

          • avatar Hiker says:

            WM, according to your sources cattle with calves were “turned out”, ie. grazing 4 to 5 miles from know wolf den sites. Cattle were grazing 2 weeks later than usual. Other things were done to try to keep wolves away. Yet none of that worked and a few (a very few) cattle were killed(maybe by wolves). The sentence for the wolves was death… Why were calves anywhere near a known wolf den site in an area where wolves had supposedly killed cattle before? It seems like the rancher grazed there despite the wolves. Maybe he had no choice. Did the wolves have a choice? Do the American people have a choice? Maybe the answer is to NOT have cattle grazing there at all! Why is that not an option? Are we so desperate for beef raised at taxpayer expense that we are willing to compromise with an endangered species and all that species represents?

            • avatar WM says:

              Hiker, that is what the duly adopted WA wolf management plan is all about. It may not be what YOU or some other folks want, but it is how it works, unless a judge says otherwise, or the plan is changed. By the way those aren’t my sources. That comes straight from WDFW. It is pretty clear they believe the producer has done quite a bit. He has a right to run his business. And controlling wolves with lethal means was always part of the plan.

              • avatar Nancy says:

                Not to interrupt your conversation with Hiker, WM but I wanted to say at this point, thank goodness for the powers to be (judges) that do take the time to evaluate the facts and aren’t k(c)ow towed in to believing that those that have taken advantage of the land and government subsidies for decades, have any interest in its wildlife or its future health.

              • avatar Hiker says:

                WM, those sources may be from WDFW but you posted them to defend your agreement. Besides, when did anyone here trust what the government says? Question it always.
                I’m glad you agree that the plan CAN be changed. It seems broken to me so should be changed.

        • avatar Elk375 says:

          I was reading an interest article on India and dog bites. There are approximately 59,000 human deaths a year in India from dogs infected with rabies. I would be more frighten of dogs than wolves. Plus another 20,000 deaths from snake bite.

  9. avatar Nancy says:

    “WASHINGTON (AP) — A conservative lawyer and writer who argues for selling off the nation’s public lands is now in charge of a nearly quarter-billion acres in federally held rangeland and other wilderness”

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/opponent-of-nations-public-lands-is-picked-to-oversee-them

  10. avatar Yvette says:

    A bit of good news for both grizzly bears and Native sovereignty.

    https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/rep-cheney-accuses-tribes-of-destroying-our-western-way-of-life-over-sacred-grizzly-protections/

    “So, in striving to protect our culture, our religious and spiritual freedoms, our sovereignty and our treaty rights – all of which are encapsulated in the grizzly issue – we are ‘destroying’ Cheney’s idea of the ‘Western way of life’?” questioned Rodgers. “I would remind the Congresswoman that at the time of the Lewis and Clark Expedition an estimated 10,000 grizzly bears roamed from the Missouri River to the Pacific Coast. That was all Indian Country. Now there are fewer than 2,000 grizzly bears and our people live in Third World conditions on meager reservations in the poorest counties in the US. Does she really want to talk about ‘destroying’ a ‘way of life’?” asked Rodgers.

    • avatar idaursine says:

      Do they have a cattle drive through Grand Teton every year? I hope it isn’t another Malheur ‘statement’.

      And Wyoming’s grizzly hunt:

      “Wyoming lawmakers, frustrated with the ruling, authorized the Wyoming Game and Fish Department to shirk the rule of law, and allow the hunting of grizzlies even though they are federally classified as threatened. The Wyoming Game and Fish Commission considered taking that step but decided against it, not wanting to make felons out of its licensed hunters.”

      • avatar Hiker says:

        Yes Ida, they drive cattle thru the park every year. One of the best places to see bison in the park during the summer is where cattle are grazing, I think it’s called elk flats.

  11. avatar idaursine says:

    There was a time when shooting the packs happened once every other year in WA (and we were promised that such drastic measures would not happen again by the then F&W Director), but now it seems to have escalated to every year, so something doesn’t seem to be working:

    https://www.nrdc.org/experts/andrew-wetzler/just-how-much-does-it-cost-kill-wolf-more-you-think

  12. avatar idaursine says:

    Here’s the background info from the first shooting of a wolf pack, the Wedge Pack, back in 2012 – SRDY (Same Ranch, Differen Year):

    https://www.opb.org/news/blog/ecotrope/washingtons-first-lethal-removal-of-wolves/

    • avatar idaursine says:

      It really does reflect poorly on the state – otherwise, it is a truly beautiful place.

      Just keep trying with changing the laws.

    • avatar idaursine says:

      I don’t know what kind of F&W outfit WY has either – going along with defying the ESA about a grizzly hunt? I’m bracing myself for some sort of retaliation and show of force, I hadn’t heard about a cattle drive through Grand Teton. I’m sure guns will be proper attire and required. 🙁

      And the state should not be normalizing psychopathy and wanton cruelty.

      Wyoming reminds me of a disappointing restaurant review – you know how they say aside from the food, the service and the price, it was great? Wyoming does have a great atmosphere though. 😉

  13. avatar idaursine says:

    I don’t live in WA, but their wolf plan isn’t that great IMHO. The reason this rancher gets away with all he does on the public lands, and isn’t booted out, is because the public either isn’t aware and/or doesn’t care about wolves getting shot to accommodate this rancher, despite polls and what they say.

    I don’t know if other ranchers are as troublesome as this one is, but every year it’s the same – if people truly do want natural wildlife on the landscape, as they say the do.

    It appears to me that people are not aware of the cost to themselves as taxpayers, and that WDFW and their collaborators and appeasers just cater to him. Is eating beef really worth it? It isn’t to me.

    I thought I might give the new ‘impossible burger’ a try just to support it, but I truly would be happy with the old veggie alternative.

    • avatar Hiker says:

      Ida, I tried the new ‘impossible burger’ and I am not a fan. The list of ingredients is long. If you want to avoid meat try Hillary’s Burgers, great taste, not too expensive.

      • avatar idaursine says:

        Thanks, I’m just as happy with the original veggie burgers, or things like falafel too.

        I want to add that does anyone think that after 8 years, nearly ten years, that anything is going to change for this rancher’s behavior?

        The state(s) want to make it acceptable to kill wolves as part of their ‘toolbox’ and other appalling figurative speech that make living creatures sound like inanimate cogs in a business plan, stakeholders, etc. I don’t ever want to see the wasting of wildlife normalized. This guy is on the public lands, and I wish that more public lands ‘stakeholders’ would care.

        Historically this rancher has been very uncooperative, so I’m not sure what it is he is doing differently now, and the current articles don’t say. There’s probably old articles for any history, and I think here on this site too.

  14. avatar Hiker says:

    If you look carefully at the beginning of the video, it looks like there may be one or two other bears (cubs?) on the hill behind the main bear.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/animals/jogger-has-scary-close-encounter-with-a-bear/vi-AAFfm0s?ocid=spartandhp

  15. avatar Kyle G says:

    Hello, did anyone see Liz Cheney’s recent comments on the decision to return the Yellowstone grizzly to the ESA?

    Remarkable, unsurprising, pathetic!

    https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/rep-cheney-accuses-tribes-of-destroying-our-western-way-of-life-over-sacred-grizzly-protections/

    • avatar Hiker says:

      Yes, amazing she admitted her true feelings. In a way she is right. Those in the Old West habitually trampled over Natives and wiped out wildlife, pushing ecosystems to the brink. It’s too bad there are still supporters of her who wish to place money over health.

  16. avatar Hiker says:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/yellowstone-tourists-illegal-act-under-investigation-video/ar-AAFri3J?ocid=spartandhp
    Everyone you can see in this video broke the law. 25 yards!! I don’t miss working the boardwalks in Yellowstone!

  17. avatar Louise Kane says:

    https://www.powelltribune.com/stories/senate-looks-to-innovators-to-help-reduce-predatorhuman-conflicts,20390?fbclid=IwAR3sql0XzodRPutF93BJAd3TlO9mmWuUcF49zn8RbN-c4MO6qE9hs9poVL8

    surprising from Barrasso and the natural resources committee…could we hope for a pendelum swing? One way to reduce conflicts is to stop killing predators and disrupting their pack structures.

    I am always amazed at the extremely low risk that predators pose to humans, compared to dogs, cars even airplane fatalities. Yet the focus on preventing predator conflicts is so out of proportion.

    Here on Cape Cod there have been 2 shark attacks in the Truro area. That is in the last hundred years or so….

    similar to wolves

    Now my beautiful bay beach in Eastham , and many others, host huge shark beware signs. Sharks in the swimming area of the bay…Ive seen three some thirty years ago and they were not great whites. I walk this beach almost every day, I am swimming almost every day and I’ve fished the waters for years (in the past). Never seen a great white in the close to shore bay.

    The hysteria is crazy and ugly

  18. avatar idaursine says:

    I was very dismayed to read about countries issuing travel advisories for travel to the US, but I suppose it is true:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/08/06/gun-violence-america-prompts-growing-list-countries-issue-travel-warnings/?noredirect=on

  19. avatar Immer Treue says:

    Interesting 17-18 minute discussion on bird color

    https://soundcloud.com/scifri/a-birds-eye-view-of-color

    The term melanosomes Is brought up. A melanosome is an organelle found in animal cells and is the site for synthesis, storage and transport of melanin, the most common light-absorbing pigment found in the animal kingdom. Melanosomes are responsible for color and photoprotection in animal cells and tissues.

    Interestingly enough, some dinosaur fossils, in particular feathered specimens, some the melanosomes are preserved, thus giving paleontologists a window into dinosaur color.

  20. avatar Nancy says:

    Anybody on line? @ 7:48) Look to the right in the pines, black bear? Its a static webcam so can review the slide show for the past hour.

    http://discoversawtooth.org/web-cam

  21. avatar idaursine says:

    I’m so thrilled – I’ve got at least two Monarch caterpillars hanging upside down, having bent the stem of a milkweed leaf – so I think they are ready for the cocoon stage! I’ve never seen the entire process from egg to butterfly.

    I’ve been running around like a madwoman while aerial spraying is going on, putting up tarps over the milkweed overnight. They don’t seem to mind it. I hope the next challenge of migration they will win also.

    They are so gorgeous – you know they are something special when you look at them. It made me think of how many I used to see as a kid in the garden.

    • avatar Immer Treue says:

      I remember walking home From school in early autumn as a child through an open field, memory is not as strong in regard to presence of milkweed but I believe it was abundant. Must have been pathway for migration at the time as there were thousands, if not tens of thousands of Monarchs perched on every available plant.

      • avatar idaursine says:

        I seem to as well; our back garden was full of them! It could be that there was more milkweed then, IDK.

        It’s a beautiful plant anyway, with a wonderful scent. I just had some common milkweed come up by itself (yay!), and it’s been the best thing.

    • avatar idaursine says:

      or chrysalis stage, sorry! 🙂

    • avatar Immer Treue says:

      Interesting as the Daffodils will read this and say the first half is BS, and the second half, see, we told you. If the online rancor is any barometer of the wolf “controversy” ebbing a bit, that’s a good sign. However, over the past couple years many to most online rags have deleted their comment sections.

      • avatar JEFF E. says:

        or the conversation will be we need to kill more cougars by any means necessary in additional kill more wolves because it’s not helping. but,but,but, someone keeps saying that the wolves are killing all the cougars….

    • avatar idaursine says:

      Great info!

    • avatar WM says:

      Does this mean more in total, because there are more cougars than wolves? Is it a per capita calculaion? And what happened to the hypothesis that black bears (and where present grizzlies) kill more young of the year elk?

      Seems there are many more questions to be answered, unless this study in fact addressed them.

      • avatar Nancy says:

        Here is an article from just a few months ago, in the same online paper regarding mountain lions:

        https://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/local/mountain-lion-mystery-do-more-cougar-confrontations-mean-there-are/article_66a05019-e48f-5384-97e2-07662305e05e.html

        It would appear if you Google mountain lions in Idaho, there is no clear picture as to how many live in the state but one fact that does stand out:

        “Without a large number of older, mature mountain lions present in East Idaho, younger cougars are able to live and reproduce more freely”

        • avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

          Elk and Predation in Idaho: Does One Size Fit All?
          https://wildlifemanagement.institute/sites/default/files/2016-09/12
          Elk_and_Predation.pdf

          • avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

            Discussion

            The role of predation in ungulate-population dynamics is unclear, largely because these interactions are complex and difficult to study. Among the wildlife biologists, the traditional view is that most predation is compensatory

            On the other hand, some recent research suggests that growth rates of prey populations, especially those at low densities, may be limited by predation.

            Determining the effect of predators on ungulate populations is difficult
            because it is a moving target. Predator-prey interactions occur within a matrix of prey species, and several species of predator are distributed across a diverse landscape with changing habitats. Furthermore, the biology of each species is unique and segments (e.g., neonates, juveniles) of populations respond uniquely to the biological setting (Coulson et al. 1997, 1999). In addition, each segment of a population plays a different role in shaping the dynamics of a particular
            population (Gaillard et al. 1998, 2000).
            Evaluating the vital rates (e.g., birth rate, survival rates) of ungulate populations is the best way to assess the effect of predation on an ungulate population. Populations are most sensitive to changes in adult-female survival, followed by reproductive rates of prime-aged adults, age at first reproduction and
            juvenile survival (Gaillard et al. 1998, Eberhardt 2002)

      • avatar JEFF E. says:

        probably can be found on the IFG site…
        or a phone call

      • avatar JB says:

        WM:

        It means that: (i) wolves and cougars are both obligate carnivores; (ii) cougars, being, on average, being larger than wolves have greater energetic requirements; (iii) there is an order of magnitude more cougars in the West than wolves; and (iv) they prey upon the same animals.

        It doesn’t take a logician (nor mathematician) to understand that the collective effects of cougar are much greater than wolves. Shoot, we didn’t really need additional science to show this…but here we are.

        In the end it doesn’t matter. The people who want to kill wolves have all the power, so the bounties, trapping and hunting will continue–and it’ll continue to have little effect beyond lining the pockets of the Don Peay’s of the world.

        Congrats.

        • avatar Nancy says:

          “In the end it doesn’t matter. The people who want to kill wolves have all the power, so the bounties, trapping and hunting will continue–and it’ll continue to have little effect beyond lining the pockets of the Don Peay’s of the world”

          Well said, JB.

        • avatar idaursine says:

          Yes, very well said!

        • avatar JB says:

          Shoot, I forgot: one of the ancillary effects is that the RMEFs and SFWs of the world are teaching the majority of Americans who don’t hunt and think wolves are cool to distrust hunters.

  22. avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

    Shadowlands: Fear and Freedom at the Oregon Standoff

    Los Angeles Times Bestseller

    “An insider account of the Malheur occupation. From the lead-up to the occupation, through the trials and the aftermath, this will be the defining chronicle of a cultural and political moment we could all do better to understand.” – Source Weekly

    Hardcover: 448 pages
    Publisher: Bloomsbury Publishing (July 2, 2019)

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/1635571200/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=7a8f5654-37f5-4688-a266-a74309cad748&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0735220980&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=EYJYJXJFBRXM80AY2GDC&pf_rd_r=EYJYJXJFBRXM80AY2GDC&pf_rd_p=7a8f5654-37f5-4688-a266-a74309cad748

    • avatar idaursine says:

      This is why agencies cannot (over)manage wildlife populations, and keeping them under the thumb like we do certain species. You just never know what kind of unpredictable events will occur.

  23. avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

    State Kills Four Wolves Within Hours of Court Granting Preliminary Injunction
    https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/493775544/state-kills-four-wolves-within-hours-of-court-granting-preliminary-injunction

    State has now killed 25 wolves in the Colville National Forest on behalf of Diamond M Ranch

    Only a single wolf of a pack that had nine members at the beginning of July survives. Among the wolves killed were four pups.

    Complaints from Len and Bill McIrvin and other members of that family operating the Diamond M Ranch have triggered 87 percent of the state’s wolf killing. The family has declined government payments to compensate them for lost cattle, and refuses to take commonsense measures to protect its cattle from predators. Instead, it has publicly demanded the eradication of wolves from the area.

    Robert Wielgus, a former Washington State University wildlife biologist who has studied wolves and other predators in eastern Washington, has pointed out that livestock losses to wolves were one-third of one percent (0.003) in wolf-occupied areas of Washington, except when it comes to the ranching operations of Len McIrvin, who has suffered 14 times the losses of other ranchers in wolf-occupied territory. The state has admitted that McIrvin and his Diamond M Ranch have never used quality range riding services, and in recent weeks they refused to allow the state to send a team of range riders in to protect their cattle. They have made clear that their intent is to kill wolves, not save cattle.

    • avatar idaursine says:

      Vile. Still, I’m sure it sticks in their craw greatly to have them court ordered to stop due to non-lethal steps not having been taken. Good!

      So the courts agree that non-lethal measures were not taken, or to the extent they could have been.

    • avatar idaursine says:

      It really does seem like the WDFW is under the employ of the Diamond M ranch, and not its responsibilities under the law.

      Still, I’m glad the courts have recognized it. It will all happen again next year too.

    • avatar idaursine says:

      “Complaints from Len and Bill McIrvin and other members of that family operating the Diamond M Ranch have triggered 87 percent of the state’s wolf killing. The family has declined government payments to compensate them for lost cattle, and refuses to take commonsense measures to protect its cattle from predators. Instead, it has publicly demanded the eradication of wolves from the area.”

      But since they are using state and taxpayer money to fund wolf ‘removals’ every year, it amounts to government payments! Tens of thousands of dollars.

      Let them come up with the money themselves (the inevitable) next year. I’d love to know their yearly financial information, just how hard put upon they have been. My guess is not very.

      Well, I’m glad of the court’s decision anyway – it’s the principle of it.

    • avatar WM says:

      Ah yes, the piece is authored, as self-reported and published “news” on EIN NEWS by shamed alleged sexual harasser and former Executive Director of HSUS, Wayne Pacelle, who resigned in February. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/us/humane-society-ceo-sexual-harassment-.html

      So, now he’s linked with some moneyed hedge fund manager in a new gig.

      Maybe his authorship of this self-published article is accurate, and maybe not. Might be good to wait until the general media picks up the topic, or the Judge hears the facts and applies the law. Judge McHale is a newbie in Settle based King County Superior Court. Let’s see what he does.

      And, by the way, didn’t WDFW in its last field report give some credit to the Diamond M ranchers for doing some things right, including using range riders and later turn out dates for cows? https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/at-risk/species-recovery/gray-wolf/updates/wdfw-director-reauthorizes-lethal-0

      • avatar Hiker says:

        So? Are you saying this report is lies? Or are you just trying to cast doubt by referring to the author in a negative way? Is that how we deal with people we disagree with? Is that how you wish to be treated here?
        Maybe you could just present your disagreement with some facts about the case and stop with the dispersions.

        • avatar WM says:

          Wayne Pacelle has kept WGL wolves on the ESA for much longer than MN, WI and MI wanted, because HSUS never wanted them delisted regardless of how many there were and whether there was a scientifically defensible position to delist. I think he’s a scum bag, and he proved it with the many sexual harassment complaints.

          As for factual accuracy, let’s see how that plays out in court.

          • avatar Hiker says:

            And yet what was reported by him seems very accurate from many sources. Don’t shoot the messenger. This welfare rancher, and I think he’s typical, does NOT want to work with wolf protections.

  24. avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

    Cattle depredation risk by gray wolves on grazing allotments in Washington

    October 2018

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351989418301628

  25. avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

    The Persuasive Power of the Wolf Lady

    To bridge the divide between wolf-lovers and ranchers, the conservationist Karin Vardaman had to change many minds—including her own.

    https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/the-persuasive-power-of-the-wolf-lady

  26. avatar Immer Treue says:

    Tied to us and wildlife in ways we are just beginning to understand. Another slippery slope, in which the slope steepens.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/opinion/sunday/light-pollution.html

  27. avatar Nancy says:

    So the countdown begins, again, as to when another pack will fill in the territory left by these wolves and a welfare rancher that can’t get his sh*t together…..

    https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/all-members-of-wolf-pack-killed-in-washington-state

    • avatar idaursine says:

      I thought there was one left that the court blocked WDFW from shooting? Did they defy the court?

      But the tiniest bit of progress has been made; the courts and the media have acknowledged that this single ranch refuses to cooperate with the state wildlife plan, as feeble as it may be, and are responsible for the major amount of wolf killings and taxpayer funding of it.

      I feel like waving, ‘see you next year (in court)!’

      • avatar WM says:

        If I understand correctly, WDFW did not confirm this wolf was a member of the eradicated pack. Sorry, I can’t remember where I read it, but it seemed to come from an official WDFW source. It may or may not been a Togo pack member.

        • avatar Hiker says:

          WM, What difference if this sole wolf was part of that pack? Wolves are being slaughtered to “protect” this welfare ranchers cattle. We as taxpayers are footing the bill. This ranchers seems to be openly hostile to wolves. I say enough is enough. What do you say WM? Has this rancher crossed a line or no? Last time I asked if you supported him or not you avoided the question. Comment all you like but tell us where you really stand.

          • avatar WM says:

            As I understand it this lone wolf might still be subject to a kill order if he is part of the pack, and the Court agrees with WDFW on removal efforts. So, it could make a difference whether this wolf survives or not, yes?

            And, if you think about the long game in WA, it is all about the total numbers, range and connectivity. There is a new WA wolf statute that kind of reinforces that, with the high concentration in the NE part of the state and the need to get better distribution at lower concentrations. Protocols or not, there will still be wolf kills. You can count on it. That is the part some advocates just don’t get- it is about the numbers and always will be. They will continue to be killed in ever larger numbers as range expands and greater tolls are taken on elk, deer, moose prey, domestic livestock and domestic animals. Be careful what you wish for, because it means more dead wolves. It is the logical conclusion, and I doubt, there is little to change that. It is a harsh reality of wolf reintroduction or repopulation.

            • avatar Hiker says:

              Once again many words but no answer to my question. Deflect all you want, those who really read this know that you have yet to answer: do you support this rancher?

              • avatar Yvette says:

                I just thought I’d see what was being said about the ongoing bloodfest in Washington. The McIrvines and their Diamond M Ranch are atrocious. The feds and states treat the welfare ranchers like ranch royalty. This is not about money and loss of cattle. Cattle that are grazing for a whooping $1.35/AUM. This is a culture war.

                How many lives are lost or ruined (wolves and wolf researchers) due to the McIrvine welfare ranchers?

  28. avatar idaursine says:

    Well, here’s the same report from the Houston Chronicle. WDFW claims that Diamond M had taken steps to deter wolves (non-lethal), but yet the court found that they had not done ‘due-diligence’ (non-lethal):

    https://www.chron.com/news/article/Judge-blocks-killing-of-surviving-wolf-pack-member-14340223.php

    • avatar Hiker says:

      Thanks Ida!

      • avatar idaursine says:

        You’re welcome! But where it stands now, I don’t know. The 2nd restraining order was temporary:

        “A lawsuit filed in King County Superior Court Aug. 1 by two Seattle residents, with support from the Center for a Humane Economy, sought a temporary restraining order on the lethal removal order. The judge denied that restraining order but then ruled Friday that the state and cattle producers in the area of the wolf pack didn’t perform “due diligence on non-lethal methods.”

        Fish and Wildlife spokeswoman Staci Lehman said the agency makes every effort to make a responsible decision after considering available evidence and that they will work with the court.”

        I don’t know what working with the court means, or if the restraining order was lifted.

  29. avatar idaursine says:

    Here’s actually more detail:

    “On Friday, the judge ruled that the question — whether the rancher deployed adequate non-lethal deterrents — could proceed to trial and temporarily blocked any ongoing lethal action.”

    https://lmtribune.com/northwest/judge-blocks-killing-of-final-wolf-pack-member/article_1ef7f034-4b28-58ea-8e34-b3998b3b7d85.html

  30. avatar idaursine says:

    Personally, I don’t like it – but I do realize that human nature being what it is, there will be wolf removals.

    But this particular instance just goes over the top, and I do hope that the courts decide that this ranch must comply with the state’s management plan, and not abuse it – and certainly not having the state agency not forthcoming about the abuses and going along with them, even covering for the rancher.

    This national forest ought to have wolves in it, and as I and many have said before, loss to wildlife and other reasons is the cost of doing business, and it is minor compared to other risks of doing business.

    The arrogance of humans thinking they can clear the landscape of other life so they can make money is wrong. This rancher ought to make some concession, especially on the public lands.

    I do hope I understand correctly that the court has found the ranch has not complied, and it appears the WDFW obsequiously saying they will ‘work with the court’ means they have been caught and called out for it. I know they are definitely caught in the middle but it comes off as a little dishonest.

    As far as Wayne Pacelle is concerned, he resigned from HSUS, but does that mean he can never do good works for animals? I think that is a little unfair.

    • avatar Hiker says:

      Thanks Ida. I choose wolves over cattle. I choose wildlife over destruction. I choose protection over abuse. If my food costs more, so be it. It’s worth the price.
      We have the luxury of discussing this because our ancestors wisely set aside lands to NOT develop. Our public lands are our greatest treasure in the West. People come from all over the world to see them. Yet they are treated as a commodity to be abused through extraction. I would rather have this rancher, and all ranchers like him, go out of business, never to bother the wild again. It happens all the time in our modern economy. During the last recession millions lost their homes, yet this guy is protected. Absurd.

      • avatar idaursine says:

        Yes. We have our own unique ecosystems and wildlife as anywhere in the world, and yet we do not seem to value it at home. Prairie grasslands and bison, Everglades.

        That’s my feeling too – I choose life over destruction.

  31. avatar Elk375 says:

    https://missoulian.com/news/local/grizzlies-on-the-lawn-grizzlies-in-the-grain-bin-grizzlies/article_60a08bcc-d9e4-5c87-9be2-59b1801009fe.html

    There are getting to be grizzlies everywhere. I heard that several grizzlies were in the City of Red Lodge last week. Wait until someone gets hurted

    • avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

      Brown bear attacks on humans: a worldwide perspective
      https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44341-w

      we investigated brown bear attacks (n = 664) on humans between 2000 and 2015 across most of the range inhabited by the species: North America (n = 183), Europe (n = 291), and East (n = 190). When the attacks occurred, half of the people were engaged in leisure activities and the main scenario was an encounter with a female with cubs. Attacks have increased significantly over time and were more frequent at high bear and low human population densities. There was no significant difference in the number of attacks between continents or between countries with different hunting practices.

    • avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

      Brown bear (Ursus arctos) attacks resulting in human casualties in Scandinavia 1977-2016; management implications and recommendations
      https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0196876

      In Scandinavia, the brown bear (Ursus arctos) population increased from ~500 bears in 1977 to ~3300 in 2008, with an increase in injuries, fatalities, and public fear of bear attacks. We reviewed media coverage and interviewed victims to explore how bear population trends, hunter education, and other factors may have influenced the number of injuries and fatalities in Scandinavia from 1977 to 2016. We found 42 incidents with 42 injuries and 2 fatalities; 42 were adult men, one was an adult woman conducting forestry work, and one was a boy skiing off-piste. Thirty-three adult men were hunting bears, moose, or small game, often with a hunting dog, and 26 had shot at the bear at 8±11 m before injury. Eleven nonhunters were conducting forestry work, inspecting a hunting area, picking berries, tending livestock, hiking, harassing a denned bear, and one person was killed outside his house at night. Eight of the 11 incidents of nonhunters involved female bears with cubs; three of these family groups were in dens and two were on carcasses. The annual number of hunters injured/killed was mostly influenced by the increase in the bear population size. The pattern was similar regarding injuries/fatalities to other outdoor users, but the relation with the bear population size was weaker than for hunters, and the null model was equally supported. Bear physiology at denning may make encounters with bears more risky in the fall, when bears show pre-hibernation behavior. Awareness and education efforts, especially among hunters, seem important to ensure human safety. Recreationists and forestry workers should avoid dense vegetation or make noise to warn bears of their presence

    • avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

      Estonia:

      land area 42 388 km2(16 366 sq mi)

      forest area 22 320 sq. km (8 618 sq mi) (53%)

      population  1.324 million

      the brown bear (grizz)population in Estonia ~750 individuals (82 females with cubs)in 2018

      damaged beehives: 267 (2018)

      “in Estonia there have been cases where people were injured in bear attacks.Most of such cases took palace in hunting situations and involved wounded animals. In the last 10 years three episodes of bear attack and consequent injury have been registered. In one case wounded bear was involved and the attack would not have taken place, as far as the circumstances are known, without the shooting incident.

      Fear for bear attack plays a key role in bear conservation.There are eight known cases from Estonia when bears have been shot in self-defence from short distance while four of them were wintering females with cubs. In none of those cases bears had actually attacked people.”

      Action plan for conservation and management
      of large carnivores (wolf Canis lupus, lynx Lynx lynx, brown bear Ursus arctos)in Estonia in 2012–2021

  32. avatar idaursine says:

    Just a little interesting side note:

    I’ve had decent luck with Monarchs this year in the milkweed patch I have, at leat one died (heartbreaking) but – there was another little, furry caterpillar that I’ve seen quite a few of.

    I finally was able to identify them, they’re called the Milkweed Tiger Moth, and they are gorgeous – they look like miniature skunks. They also feed exclusively on milkweed. I had been especially worried about how they’d all fare with the mosquito spraying we’ve had, and they and the bees all seem to have come through okay.

    Milkweed is the gift that keeps on giving, I think. 😉

    • avatar idaursine says:

      The nighttime wildlife world is a whole ‘nother world out there. Talk about other nations!

      Apparently, these little guys communicate with sound and ‘jam’ predators (bats) sonar as protection. To say, ‘hey, I’m toxic!’. Fascinating!

  33. avatar Chris Zinda says:

    Wreckreation is not a virtue. It is high time the enviro & wilderness movement support carrying capacities and quotas.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/25/hiking-elk-driven-to-brink-colorado-vail

    • avatar Hiker says:

      Chris, I think the Federal agencies in charge of these lands might need to support quotas as well. Increased regulation, without increased patrol and law enforcement is useless. I saw this today when I met a mtn. biker in a Wilderness Area near where I live. I mentioned to her that she wasn’t allowed there and she claimed to have forgotten she was in Wilderness, even though she then said she hiked there all the time. In all the time I’ve hiked in this area for the last 5 years, I seen ONE Forest Ranger on the trail! I’ve seen plenty of volunteers, but they can’t make arrests or issue tickets.

      • avatar Chris Zinda says:

        The agencies will not until there is real pressure from both environmental groups and public lands users. The problem is both have been captured by the industry and indoctrinated land ethic, that of public lands marketed as righteous anarchistic freedom.

        Orgs also rely heavily on industry foundations – like Patagonia and Conservation Alliance – for funding.

        Individuals are loathe to believe “low impact” activities have significant impact – and not just in aggregate or carbon to and from jaunts.

        Howie Wolke (a guide) supports the SOAR Act. His Wilderness Watch does not strongly campaign today for carrying capacities and quotas. Really, nobody does. If they and those like them don’t, we cannot expect captured agencies and politicians (like OIA’s Colorado) to do so, much less have citation issuing enforcement to ensure flora and fauna can exist in situ.

        I wrote about these issues years ago, again singling Wuerthner. I believe he has a role to play in correcting course via his expertise and Public Lands Media.

        • avatar Hiker says:

          Chris, my main point is that support for quotas won’t matter unless these agencies reprioritize their budgets to support enforcement. Much of the NFS and BLM budgets are spent on firefighting and thus unavailable. The National Park Service has quotas for backpackers already with staff to support this.
          Another thing is your blame for hikers seems simplistic to me. The link you posted about Vail’s elk suffering needs analysis. According to that study elk run in fear from humans, leaving calves behind and this leads to their deaths. However, what is not mentioned is WHY the elk are afraid of humans in Vail. Elk, like most large mammals, adapt to their circumstances, and where they are NOT hunted they are not afraid. I have first-hand experience with this having been chased by female elk protecting their calves. This happens frequently In Yellowstone N.P. where elk are not hunted and are not afraid of humans. I am not advocating against hunting and believe it has it’s place in wildlife management. However, as is usually the case, things are complicated and quotas may or may not help. If they help protect wildlife then I am in favor. I think it could go beyond quotas to include closures, since, like that article states, many would ignore quotas. Maybe limited closures to protect wildlife during birthing season would help. That, along with proper support through law enforcement patrols.

  34. avatar Nancy says:

    Rest In Peace, Frances

  35. avatar Dan Huff says:

    September 1, 2019
    My wife and I just returned from a backpacking trip in the Left Fork of Fall Creek. We had read that livestock grazing was banned in this area. We were surprised to find a herd of approximately 20-30 cows. The damage they had done was very apparent. It was really disturbing. We had also read that this was great area to view wildlife. We saw one elk, a few goats and I heard a coyote early in the morning. The wildlife sightings were sparse which I’m sure is due to the cattle mucking up the place. Does anyone know why the cattle are there? A mistake? Was to ban lifted? Who can I talk to to file a complaint? Thanks

  36. avatar Ralph Maughan says:

    This is the Left Fork of Fall Creek in the Pioneer Mountains?

    If so, I am outraged. I will try to find out about it.

  37. avatar Nancy says:

    No doubt Mamma bear recently decided “okay, you’re on your own now” and this was as good a place as any, to hang out 🙂

    https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/black-bear-found-sleeping-on-restroom-sinks-in-montana-lodge

  38. avatar Hiker says:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/09/04/grizzly-secrets-how-the-trump-administration-keeps-the-public-in-the-dark-about-yellowstones-bears/

    The swamp is full under Trump. Drained of anything good and monsters added. Also, what’s wrong with swamps?

  39. avatar Chris Zinda says:

    The virtue of wreckreation is conservation in action.

    Given this closure for human feces is in wilderness, where is Wilderness Watch, Wuerthner, etc. again on untrammeled? Carrying capacities and quotas in Conservation Alliance’s backyard?

    https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2019/09/03/camping-no-name-lake-oregon-banned-three-sisters-wildernes/2200910001/

  40. avatar Larry Keeney says:

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-04/fur-trapping-ban-california-law FINALLY. Now which state is next? At least something to be elated about amongst the pilaging by Trump administration.

  41. avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

    Russia Is Warming Disproportionately Fast, Environment Ministry Says
    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/09/04/russia-is-warming-disproportionately-fast-environment-ministry-says-a67145

    Average temperatures in Russia rose at more than double the rate seen worldwide between 1976 and 2018. The year 2018 was the ninth-warmest year in Russia since 1936.

    A population of 13.4 million people lived in 46 “highly polluted” Russian cities last year, the report added. Cities across Siberia dominated the ministry’s ranking of the 22 most polluted towns and cities, which are home to an estimated 5.1 million people.

    • avatar Nancy says:

      Earth’s clock continues to click forward, educating those, dedicated to environmental sciences and warnings about the dangers ahead….but fact is, way too few humans seem to be listening to or even give a sh*t about what our species is doing to other species we share the planet with.

      We Humans have managed to “outsize” Planet Earth in just our brief period of time here due to greed and need for space and no one seems to get that fact yet:

      exceptionally large.
      “an outsize bed”

      synonyms: huge, oversized, enormous, gigantic, very big, very large, great, giant, colossal, massive, mammoth, vast, immense, tremendous, monumental, prodigious, mountainous, monstrous, elephantine, king-sized, king-size, gargantuan, Herculean, Brobdingnagian, substantial, extensive, hefty, bulky, weighty, heavy, gross;

      • avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

        water shortages & epidemics (thanks to anti-biotics fed to the cattle) will quickly bring drastic changes – organized human life will disappear in near future

  42. avatar Hiker says:

    This is Griz management in action:
    https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/environmental/female-grizzly-moved-to-blackrock-creek-after-taking-the-bait/article_fe8bb678-803d-52d5-87a4-358f569ddd2e.html

    This bears only crime is responding to bait left for another bear. Who knows if it would cause “problems” if left alone.
    Imagine stumbling upon the best restaurant in town, only to find at this place they kidnap you and move you to a different neighborhood. Pathetic, no wonder so many bears die each year. Griz need to stay on the LIST forever if this is how they get treated.

    • avatar Nancy says:

      And try and imagine you’re a predator, just being a predator, in western states and finding “free” buffets signs hanging from just about every fence post? (many pastures on both private and public lands have these subtle “signs” as in dead or dying livestock laying around) because its too much trouble for ranchers to clean up the by product of raising livestock. (last I heard over 20% of livestock die annually from a whole host of reasons other that predation, which is minute)

      What’s 20 percent of a few million head of cows and sheep raised in western states? Nothing obviously to get excited about.

      Most write it off. Write those losses off until the diners (predators) get too serious about expecting/looking forward to those free buffets rather than looking for their natural prey, in what’s still a prey rich environment for predators.

      Hell, coming home yesterday I could of swerved off the road, slightly, and bagged a nice young calf (as in beef) that was loose on the road. But I don’t eat beef and neither do most predators, unless the opportunity is too good to pass up 🙂

      • avatar Hiker says:

        Yes, it seems the agencies responsible look the other way when it comes to ranchers and their trash. If you or I left food out and a bear got it we could be fined, if caught. Ranchers are guilty of leaving food out all the time and yet it’s business as usual. The BLM and NFS have let all of us down.

    • avatar idaursine says:

      He may join another elk herd or find a doe, but it isn’t going to happen overnight, for crying out loud! 🙁

      Anyway, I’m glad to see that these guys didn’t take advantage of Elliot, and seem to have hunting standards and ethics.

    • avatar idaursine says:

      Thank you! This sounds very interesting.

      I think in the last week or two, or I hope anyway, I saw a Monarch emerge, and he or she looked like they were drying their wings, or maybe they had just lit there.

      I have a small milkweed patch that came up in a front border, and all of the caterpillars took up residence on the plants close to the garage. I had to move my car so we don’t disturb them. 🙂 The little furball tussock moths have moved in now that the Monarchs I think are nearly ready to go.

      The roads are treated in winter, but we’re in/near wetlands and public water supplies so I don’t know if they use sand or less road salt. One is as bad as the other I suppose.

    • avatar Hiker says:

      Mtn. Lions in that part of CA face an uphill battle. Surrounded by freeways, cut off from others, and now this. They seem to have little chance of long-term survival. It’s unfortunate because if you spend any time down there you’d realize there are so many miles of undeveloped hills, beautiful Mtn. Lion habitat.

  43. avatar idaursine says:

    “Getting rid of reporting requirements makes it glaringly obvious that the ministry isn’t even planning on studying whether such an unethical and unscientific regulation change will benefit moose,” said Hannah Barron, director of Wildlife Conservation Campaigns for Earthroots. “Hunters could wind up killing hundreds or even thousands of wolves and coyotes each year and we’d have no idea.”

    It’s more than two steps back; it’s all the way back to square one. Primitive. I wonder what kind of a court system they have and if it can be challenged?

  44. avatar Immer Treue says:

    The proposed cull was condemned as outdated thinking that ignores the real cause of the caribou decline by a one-time NDP candidate and former conservation officer.
    Habitat loss to logging, mining, oil and gas development and roadbuilding is the real problem, said Bryce Casavant, now a conservation policy analyst with Pacific Wild.
    “It’s not a scientific discovery to say that if we kill the predators, the caribou will do a little better,” he said. “What’s really happening is that taxpayers are subsidizing inappropriate industrial operations by paying for the cull and the wolves are paying with their lives.”

  45. avatar Immer Treue says:

    Once again, wolves scapegoated due to past/current human activity.

    https://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/news/local-news/b-c-predator-cull-would-target-80-per-cent-of-wolves-in-caribou-recovery-areas-1.23945292

    “The proposed cull was condemned as outdated thinking that ignores the real cause of the caribou decline by a one-time NDP candidate and former conservation officer.
    Habitat loss to logging, mining, oil and gas development and roadbuilding is the real problem, said Bryce Casavant, now a conservation policy analyst with Pacific Wild.
    “It’s not a scientific discovery to say that if we kill the predators, the caribou will do a little better,” he said. “What’s really happening is that taxpayers are subsidizing inappropriate industrial operations by paying for the cull and the wolves are paying with their lives.”

    Short article, but no talk of deer/ moose removal. If there are so few Caribou, and so many wolves, the wolves have to be eating something else to maintain their population level.

  46. avatar idaursine says:

    Hostilities to wildlife, and the bear has done nothing:

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/fort-nelson-residents-want-grizzly-204027366.html

    • avatar Nancy says:

      https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/three-hunters-injured-two-grizzly-bear-attacks-montana-n1055721

      Its that time of the year again in Montana where hunters are creeping around in bear habitat. Hunters who’ve done their best to wash away any human scent (from their bodies and clothing) Covered from head to toe in camouflage, hoping to outsmart big game.

      Meanwhile thousands of hikers have been traveling the same areas (inside and around the park) during the spring and summer months and one is hard pressed to find any news articles about them being attacked by grizzlies.

      Maybe its time to rethink hunting habits in bear habitat?

      • avatar WM says:

        I suspect it could have been hikers and the attacks still happen, Nancy.

        https://www.rfdtv.com/story/41061501/three-injured-in-grizzly-attacks-in-montana

        • avatar Hiker says:

          Seriously WM? When I was a park ranger in Yellowstone and also in Grand Teton N.P., for 10 years, this would happen every fall. As many as three or four hunters would be attacked by Griz. OUTSIDE the parks. Meanwhile people, including myself, would continue to hike, in the parks, throughout the fall and RARELY even see a bear let alone get attacked by one.

          When you combine sneaky people who aren’t making noise with gut piles from successful hunts it’s a recipe for disaster.

          • avatar WM says:

            Hiker, in the two instant cases, no gut piles. I have been charged by a grizzly – but not as a hunter, in Yukon Territory.

            Incidentally, I was in Olympic National Park week before last, up in LaCrosse Basin, headwaters of the Duckabush River and opposite the Quinault, which flows into the Pacific Ocean. Had 16 black bear sightings, likely of 10 different bears. Several within less than 40 yards, including one old cranky boar who we accidentally suprised – and he began a charge which I stopped with hiking poles over my head and a very loud, “NO.” Most of our coastal black bears just want to be left alone, so they can chow down on huckleberries, which were numerous, large and sweet this year.

            As for grizzlies, it is in their nature to be aggressive. And, the more bears there are, in more habitat where humans are numerous, the more likely there will be encounters not good for humans and ultimately for grizzlies. Be careful what you wish for outside national parks.

            • avatar WM says:

              Lacrosse Basin is about 18 miles in, on really bad trail. Takes three days to get there backpacking.

            • avatar Hiker says:

              So, WM, what you are saying is that you’ve never been ATTACKED by Griz., only charged. This thread is about Griz. attacks. Thanks for clearing up your limited experience.
              BTW I was talking about bear sightings in the Rockies, I sure WA. has more, since it has better habitat. Any attacks by bears, either black or Griz. to report?

              • avatar WM says:

                Well, thank you for the reminder Hiker. I will be sure to keep my comments on point, and stay within my limited knowledge lane to satisfy a self-appointed thread monitor.

                • avatar Hiker says:

                  HA! Too funny my friend! Comment all you want, say anything you desire, just know I’ll stick to the point. The point here is that hunters got attacked and YOU said they could have been hikers and been attacked as well. My response is that’s a lot less likely then many believe. This is based on years of living and working in Griz. country, not just visiting. When you have Griz. wandering in your backyard it changes your perception.

                  When hiking in Griz. country follow these guidelines:
                  -hike in groups, and stay together.
                  -make noise, especially when you can’t see far down the trail. This alerts bears to your presence so they can avoid you.
                  -carry (and know how to use) pepper spray.
                  -if you see a bear from a distance turn around and leave.
                  -if a bear charges DON’T run, bears can outrun you and most charges are bluffs.
                  -if a Griz. attacks, play dead. Most Griz. attacks are based on a perceived threat and if the threat I gone (ie. you play dead) the attack usually ends.

                  Hunters are usually too quiet to alert bears of their presence and increase their chances of attack. Hunters usually are carrying a firearm so the tendency, if attacked, is to shoot, and miss, first, then attempt to use pepper spray (too late). Hikers, if they are careful, can avoid the vast majority of these problems. Let’s not confuse the issue and maybe we can keep people safe.

                • avatar WM says:

                  Well, Hiker, having spent a fair amount of time in Alaska I will just have to disagree with you, along with many other hikers, fishers and hunters there and elsewhere in grizzly shared habitat. When I stream fished in AK where the sound of the rushing water impaired a grizzly’s ability to hear me while feeding on summer salmon, locals INSISTED I take 12 gauge short barrel shotgun (before bear spray which has become more popular recently).
                  My cousin was a professional engineer/land surveyor, and for some of his career worked for the USFS on the Lolo NF in Montana; He also worked specifically in areas abutting the Bob Marshall Wilderness. He and his crews were not silent, in fact anything but, and they had several grizzly encounters over the years.
                  And if you look at the fatality statistics, serious reported injuries, and talk to folks about unreported “charges or attacks” (I would say a charge is still an attack until it isn’t), there are quite a few involving, campers, residents on their own property, fishermen, runners, mountain bikers and workers like survey or timber marking crews. So let me just call bullshit on your NP Jellystone “expertise,” and a possible (likely) over-focus on hunters.
                  And, a point of order on the term “Griz.” My friends tell me that term is earned, and you don’t get to legitimately use it unless you have been “attacked” and blood is drawn. Too bad Bob “action” Jackson, or SEAK Mossback (an AK fish biologist in grizzly country all the time and experiences to show for it), and even mauled grizzly scientist Barry Gilbert don’t comment here anymore. They would put you and me in our proper places, Hiker. They do have the experience, in spades, not like some know it all GS-4 or 5, seasonal NP ranger telling tourists what grizzlies do and when, or making some subtle distinction between a bluff charge and the real thing.

                • avatar Hiker says:

                  WM, interesting. So you complain about what I post then post this utter nonsense. What do you know about anything? Lots of crap you’ve heard from friends. How about info from trained professionals? Do you have any of that? Before you start dissing the NPS just know it’s a constant battle to keep those “tourists” safe.
                  I do NOT have an anti-hunting bias, some of my best friends hunt. But facts are facts, WAY more attacks (very different from charges if you’ve seen the injuries) involve hunters than hikers.
                  Maybe things are different in AK. but down here, WHERE MOST OF US LIVE, what I’ve outlined works to keep people safe and alive. This is not my opinion, it’s what experts in the field teach to us lowly grunts in the field in the NPS. I have more than just work experience with bears. When you work for the NPS you live there. Instead of just visiting Griz. country like you have. Try living there for over a decade before you make fun of my experience. I was not kidding about Griz. in my backyard.
                  You sound like you’ve got a lot of hunting experience, well I’ve got a lot of hiking experience. Both on my own and leading others. Including leading backpack trips of several days with many people(through bear country). And what I’ve been trained and taught WORKS most of the time. Obviously there are many variables in nature so when you list things like noise from a stream you are really scrapping the bottom for things to write.
                  Also, I’ll call them Griz. if I feel like it. You can tell your friends or whoever to stick their self-righteous noses somewhere else.

                • avatar Hiker says:

                  BTW WM, I’ve talked to thousands of visitors about bears over the years. I have many bear stories that I’ve shared over and over. I’ve spoken to groups of 200 or more at time. All based on proven experts in the field and what they think is most important to share with people. Do you think as a NPS Ranger I just get to make stuff up? Hell no! All talks and walks are audited by supervisors and believe me if something is wrong you’ll find out. So don’t be so quick to judge just because you disagree with me. What you just wrote is distressing for this website, instead of arguing with me you attack me. Well keep it up, I WILL fight back.

  47. avatar idaursine says:

    These encounters are concerning, and I know we sometimes complain about F&W and their counterparts, but in the British Columbia article you can really appreciate that F&W is the buffer protecting wildlife.

    I understand people’s concerns, but I hope it won’t turn into torch and pitchfork response. It is ‘normal’ for bears to be in their habitat too – they were there before human settlement.

    With hunters, perhaps the bears have learned to expect danger. I don’t think scent can be eliminated entirely.

  48. avatar idaursine says:

    “Bears are thought to have the best sense of smell of any animal on earth.”

    https://sectionhiker.com/bears_sense_of_smell/

  49. avatar Immer Treue says:

    Where Have All The Wild Birds Gone?

    https://www.tampabay.com/news/nation-world/2019/09/19/where-have-the-wild-birds-gone-3-billion-fewer-than-1970/

    Equine Encephalitis
    Habitat Loss

    And drumrollllllllllllll

    Cats

  50. avatar Immer Treue says:

    I’ve recently had the displeasure to encounter someone who graced/disgraced the pages of The Wildlife News in the past in regard to wolf culls in British Columbia, and other areas of Canada in order to try and save the Boreal Woodland Caribou. Perhaps someone can assist me in understanding the opposing view when every scholarly article, paper and study out there points out Boreal woodland caribou require large, intact forest ecosystems to survive and thrive. The ultimate cause of caribou decline across the country is habitat loss and fragmentation associated with industrial resource extraction activities and the increase in predation triggered by these disturbances. Boreal woodland caribou have lost more than half of their historic distribution area, and the federal recovery strategy identified that 37 of 51 populations are not self-sustaining.

    If one wants to save boreal woodland caribou, killing wolves is merely a bandaid for an arterial wound. If the habitat continues to be fragmented, woodland caribou are doomed, and it doesn’t matter how many wolves are killed, because more will continue to be attracted by the moose that filter into areas that were once of low productivity, the old growth niche in which these caribou thrived.

    If one looks upon it as work, It’s always been stressed to me, don’t do a half-assed job. In the case of the boreal woodland caribou, this may require a wolf cull (I get this). But it also requires complete habitat restoration, no activity for perpetuity by the extractive industries, no more roads, seismic lines, no snowmobiles for the general public. The habitat is not home to moose and deer, thus wolf predation was low. Now that moose are present due to habitat fragmentation wolf numbers increase due to moose, and the predation rates increase on caribou. With the number of wolves present in those areas, they have to be eating something else beside caribou to sustain their numbers.

    So, in regard to saving the caribou, moose also require removal. May the gods forbid the arrival of whitetail deer that carry brainworm.

    Otherwise, it’s killing wolves just to kill wolves.

    • avatar Hiker says:

      Immer, sometimes it’s not logical, I find that emotion often plays a huge part concerning wolves (along with other topics). You can argue with someone like that till your blue in the face and achieve nothing. For some reason wolves bring out the worst in some people. The best you can hope for is shutting them down with facts and science. But I doubt you’ll change their minds.

      Some people just want to blame and kill wolves. It’s easier than thinking.

  51. avatar Hiker says:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7494611/Two-grizzly-bears-caught-camera-battling-hind-legs-highway-Canada.html

    So how is a Griz. attack the same as a charge? Clearly if a Griz. actually makes contact you are in serious trouble.
    Meanwhile, a charge, while scary, is NOT the same by any measure.

    • avatar Nancy says:

      Still operating on the almost defunct now, Windows 7 operating system, Hiker, so couldn’t watch the video on this site but I’m sure it was amazing. Grizzlies are nothing to mess around with in their natural habitat.

      And as I mentioned in my original post, human hunters may have to start rethinking their usual hunting habits, because there has now been yet another attack on a hunter in the same area.

      The “jury” (officials investigating) is still out as to whether it was the same bear, but 8 miles away is well within this bear’s territory.

      https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/26/us/montana-grizzly-bear-attack/index.html

      Gathering from at least 2 of the incidents, the bear was shot at so are we now looking at a wounded bear?

      • avatar Hiker says:

        Yes, hunting in Griz. country is very risky. It sounds like he had hunting partners he was able to reunite with but why separate at all? Even while hunting (maybe especially while hunting), in Griz. country it’s important to stay together! Hunters have died from this! These guys have been lucky to escape with just injuries.

  52. avatar idaursine says:

    I wish they wouldn’t refer to hunters being ‘attacked’ by grizzlies. If you go out into the wild, it is a risk you accept, and should take personal responsibility for.

    The grizzlies and other wildlife are the ones being attacked, especially for recreational killing. I am not a supporter of hunting, especially in modern times where it is not a necessity, except possibly in the most rare of cases.

  53. avatar Hiker says:

    Elk, and other wildlife, are not always afraid of people:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/officials-warn-residents-to-stay-away-from-elk-after-animal-seen-charging-at-crowd/ar-AAHWHkq?li=BBnbcA1

    This happened in Estes Park, CO. right outside Rocky Mountain N.P. The elk are often seen in town and know they are not hunted there. And now it’s the rut….

  54. avatar idaursine says:

    I just heard this on the national news – it was again called an ‘attack’.

    It must be the modern human’s disconnect from nature. Why do people insist upon getting to close? It is the fall rut now, and the bulls are going to be more aggressive. It isn’t that difficult to understand, is it?

    From the animal’s point of view, the people are a threat and harassment, or even attacks by hunters and tourists.

    What is wrong with people? To entitled as the lords of the land, I guess.

    • avatar Hiker says:

      Ida, in my experience as a park ranger many people who visit these areas don’t have a lot of common sense when it comes to wildlife. I once had a photographer argue with me while on duty. I was trying to get people away from a bull Elk who was bugling during the rut and this man said he was a hunter and I was overreacting. Never mind that he was in a N.P. with no firearm dealing with an animal that wasn’t afraid of him because it didn’t get hunted there. I, the uniformed park ranger, was wrong in his opinion. That was an interesting day and luckily the bull eventually moved away. It always amazed me how tolerant many animals were of us, but you never knew for sure what would happen. I really don’t miss that part of the job.

  55. avatar Immer Treue says:

    Witness what occurs when one gives guns to wolves.

    https://ecareview.com/three-moose-found-dead-near-cereal/

  56. avatar Hiker says:

    One very lucky bear:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7522197/Shocking-moment-speeding-mountain-biker-jumps-black-BEAR-downhill-trail-Canada.html
    Mountain biking seems to be a tad too quick to avoid certain problems. What if this wasn’t a bear but a person, or even a child!

  57. avatar JB says:

    If you have a few moments, you might be interested in this survey: https://osu.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0vKZ9Y6jFs0Fr1P

    It attempts to make the trade-offs that are inherent to ‘everyday conservation’ a bit more real for focus.

  58. avatar Nancy says:

    In case you missed it:

  59. avatar idaursine says:

    “Inslee wrote that management actions have “resulted in public concern and outrage.””

    https://kuow.org/stories/inslee-calls-on-state-wildlife-agency-to-significantly-reduce-lethal-wolf-actions

  60. avatar Immer Treue says:

    I guess this is good news, from Rockholm.

    “I will be shutting down the page in two weeks. We have done what we could do to stop the spread of wolves, but we have found that the amount of effort to keep the page running does not reflect the interest in actually stopping it. RMEF and others continue to fundraise, and steal our hard work and we will no longer give them our efforts.

    Thank you for following our page.”

    Still waiting for the book and movie.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PVrEwCa8nSA

    • avatar Hiker says:

      Devastating news. These Griz. were hit by cars or train while feeding on cattle killed by the snowstorms. If the average person left food out that a Griz. got they could be sited but ranchers routinely leave “food”, in the form of dead cattle, and the bears pay the price. End all welfare ranching now.

    • avatar idaursine says:

      Awful. Why doesn’t anyone do something to stop it?

      And to think, these self-centered states wanted and probably still want, a hunting season!

      There’s enough mortality of poor grizzlies without them too.

  61. avatar Nancy says:

    “Today, the Tongass is home to approximately 70,000 people spread among 32 communities, including approximately 32,000 in the state capital of Juneau. The region is often referred to as the “Inside Passage” or the gateway to Alaska, and is defined by its primary industries with commercial fishing, tourism and recreation jobs among the fastest growing job sectors in Southeast Alaska. These industries pump approximately $1 billion apiece into Southeast Alaska’s economy annually”

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-logging-alaska/u-s-proposal-would-lift-logging-ban-in-pristine-alaska-forest-idUSKBN1WU2WQ

    • avatar Nancy says:

      Huh. Could it be possible? A species, thought to be extinct for decades, suddenly just reappears?

      But then again, this new finding, when you click on the link, takes a backseat…. to all the other BS/garbage going on around the globe (especially anything “idiot Trump” related)

  62. avatar Larry Keeney says:

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2019.01678/full -here is another article I came across about empathy. Have long time interest in empathy and how that trait, in my mind at least, has a survival quality both for the individual and population (not necessarily restricted just to the human population). People with empathy driven personalities I think can recognize empathy in other life forms where those that lack empathy see the same thing as “instinctive behavior”. I do not see empathy having any detrimental effect on survival. To the individual it promotes cohesiveness, attraction, learned sharing, protection and so many other survival necessities. The population as a whole benefits as well. Among “wolf lovers” there must be some spark of admiration about wolves that come from the empathy characteristics exhibited by wolves that first turns our attention toward wanting to know more about them. Generally we don’t feel as strongly about fish, is it that we don’t observe their empathy characteristics as easily as with a pack of wolves? Fish do exhibit some level of empathy because we know the young huddle together and must share some mutual benefit, is it any level of empathy? The above research paper points out that empathy does not need a higher level of psychological functions. (So how does science explain Trump’s lack of empathy, he lacks a higher level of psychological function so that’s not the reason- sidebar thought please excuse) For me I conclude that empathy enables the mind to see in broader and more complete terms. Whether it be in a wolf pack that raising of the pups be accepted by all adult members or in peoplekind where empathy brings to the individual to be able to see the value in many more types of people and other life forms. Show me a hunter that says he loves the animals he hunts and hangs on his wall and I say his house of empathy is made from paper. But until those with a desire to expand their empathy do not outnumber those lacking empathy our laws will not reflect this most important survival attribute. Probably most here have seen the photos of the polar bear and chained sled dog playing together and showing complete submissiveness back and forth. No way can I make myself see just instinctive behavior there. Our greatest teacher for survival is all the earth and its life forms. Killing it all off is killing our own.

    • avatar idaursine says:

      Wonderful post. 🙂

      As a wolf lover, my feelings have come from their cruel persecution over the centuries, and it saddens me to think that this mistreatment of them, based on lack of knowledge and/or mistaken beliefs/superstition, still exists out there.

    • avatar rork says:

      “The population as a whole benefits as well.”
      Is that just a statement of “well, that’s wonderful” or are you doing some non-darwinistic “good of the species” thinking. Being useful to those who share genes with you can benefit those selfish genes though. (Wolves kill each other allot. Not that empathic it seems.) Being that useful to unrelated people is something I only do because of my (atheist) ethics. My tribe is everyone. It may not help my survival or my genes – so what.

      Your “show me a hunter” sentence is baloney. I don’t even get “made from paper” or that it has any logic. Just name calling. I shot the fouth deer Saturday – they are overwhelming our place up north, and our managers will allow me god-knows-how may doe tags hoping we can knock them down. Perhaps it is my empathy for the other wildlife that the deer are crowding out that helps me kill deer. Also, they taste good if you have skills, and it is easier to buy no farm animal meat. Further consider that we likely have hunting instinct. Some of us can have that instinct, eat well, get outdoors, reduce deer numbers, and still nearly worship nature. I want to live life having known what is like to be a human. I feel incredibly connected to the old ones when I have that bow in my hands. Same with gardening or foraging.

      • avatar Larry Keeney says:

        Your posts are among the best of regulars on TWN. You point out my flaws when I ramble. I wrote the above when frustrated with so many news reports of senseless killing and destruction by people. I cannot see people exhibiting empathy using snares, poison, traps, habitat destruction and trophy hunting having much of a grasp on empathy. I don’t think one must tie empathy to religion to see value it has for humanity and subsequently to the wellness of life on earth for all. So an atheistic viewpoint should not be a hinderance to empathy. I have seen people and animals suffer and die needlessly when a person lacking any vestiges of empathy act. I have tried to learn to ask a question of myself about some of my actions: Do I really need to clear that piece of ground or let it go native; set out traps to avoid dealing with wildlife called pests, you can (maybe) see my point. Do I consider, “is my action all about me? Or do I think about the impact on others?” Killing wildlife just became it is in my way is not executing to our full potential as intelligent humans.

        • avatar idaursine says:

          Larry, I wouldn’t be too quick to put your post down.

          Time and time again, I see this kind of ‘indignance’ from hunters, who conveniently dismiss all of the vile behavior of their fellows, in favor of the ‘ethical hunter in touch with nature and his fellow man’ image.

          I can appreciate some of what rork believes, but we know that there are those who are just plain killers who waste these animals (maybe it is a part of the human makeup, the killing instinct, but I disavow it, personally). In modern times, very few kill for food and don’t need to, so all that’s left is that instinct.

          How did the deer become so ‘overpopulated’ to begin with? Because there are no predators anymore, except for the human kind.

          • avatar Larry Keeney says:

            Ida-
            People of this country are losing their quality of life by the taking of ecosystems along with its inclusive wildlife. This is done by the rich and powerful in the form of corporations and businesses. I further think it represents selfishness which is of course the opposite of empathy. Our flag should be flown with the banner, “Kindness Matters”, because it does. Without empathy the enemy is us.

            • avatar idaursine says:

              I think the parasitation of ecosystems is done by everyone, with few exceptions. Sure, rich corporations swallow up land and resources, but without consumers they wouldn’t be able to. Rural people because they’ve always done it and can’t seem to comprehend that times change, and resources dwindle to nothing.

              The entitled rich, the entitled poor, and in today’s world where wildlife is under such pressure from all sides, it is going to result in extinction.

              I do agree that kindness matters, and you do see the results of it many times, but I haven’t the patience anymore with environmental matters, and my empathy includes all living things. Like land and resources, people will use it all up.

              • avatar idaursine says:

                ^^forgot to add – the entitled rich, the entitled poor, all political parties, and on and on.

                We might get a bone thrown to environmentalists occasionally by the Democrats, but that’s it.

                I read the other day that California’s governor refuses to block development in fire-prone areas, because it is ‘contrary to California’s pioneering spirit’.

                Well, California’s pioneering spirit went out in the 1800s or so. Lord help the forests out there, if people have no intention of stopping building, despite year after year of disasters and expense of life and resources.

          • avatar rork says:

            I did not mean to dismiss vile behavior of other hunters. Most of them are selfish pigs even if they are law abiding and do no truly horrible things. Many act like trophy hunters and think of it as a competition. They butcher badly or not at all, are wasteful, and are horrible cooks, which might explain why they don’t like deer meat that much. They use bullets from small shacks overlooking bait piles (illegal now near me) – methods requiring no traditional skills and little effort. They don’t even scout, excepting use of trail cameras. They have never experienced anything else. My partners and I do not even consider it hunting, and two generations ago everyone would have agreed.

    • avatar MAD says:

      Regarding the polar bear and the dog chained up, I have a little background info on that whole situation. This occurred up in Churchill, Manitoba, which is popularly known as the “PB Capitol of the world” due to tourism. The owner of the dogs was named Brian Ladoon (he passed away last year). He bred his dogs, the Canadian Eskimo Dog, to sell and supposedly “preserve” the breed. In his compounds outside of town he would have dozens of the dogs chained up and the chains were spiked into the ground. Very few had any shelter at all. I visited his property while up in Churchill working with my wife 15 years ago (she was studying the Hudson Bay PBs and their diet). My wife considered buying one of his dogs to use on her research project with the PBs. She settled on a Dutch Shepherd who turned out to be incredible! (Just google “Quinoa and polar bears” and you’ll see photos of him & my wife and 2 NY Times articles).

      Ladoon would go out to the dogs every few days and throw out some food for them. When he didn’t have enough food for them he would pick the ones he thought he could sell and just shoot the others. Now, during the summer the PBs come into Churchill and the surrounding areas because the ice in Hudson Bay breaks up and melts. Ladoon would actually lose several dogs every year because the PBs would kill and eat them. He’d also lose some dogs to wolves attacking them. Ladoon used to leave food about a 1/2 mile away from the dogs to keep the PBs away from his dogs, which got him in trouble. He was a vile person.

      Sorry for the diatribe, but my point is that the extremely rare instances where PBs did not kill and eat the dogs and seemed to be playing and socializing with them were more likely anomalies; rather than some mystical display of empathy, affection or love between the 2 species.

      • avatar Hiker says:

        Huh…I’ve always wondered about that story and those photos…it didn’t make sense to me. Thanks for the info. Maybe that PB was playing with it’s food like a cat with a mouse.

      • avatar Nancy says:

        Ladoon was obviously a vile person, MAD but, there are countless examples of species befriending other species and displaying at least what most might call affection. Here are just a few:

        https://www.boredpanda.com/unusual-animal-friendships-interspecies/

        I took a photo last winter (on my property) of a wild, whitetail doe hanging out with a wild, cottontail rabbit. It was precious to see 🙂

      • avatar idaursine says:

        Sad. 🙁

      • avatar Larry Keeney says:

        MAD,
        Doggone, seems like there is always a down side to a good story! Just have to hope the dog and polar bear got to live a full life in spite of bad conduct of people. I enjoy watching my feeders and how different species interact. Hummers/LBJs/squirrels/chipmunks/rabbits/the occasional Coopers hawk/ and my cocker, all communicate to one and other. Hummers are the funniest and are very acute they don’t miss a cue from anyone else although they seem to be too busy staying airborne don’t try to step into their space. My favorite authors on wildlife communication and related topics are Marc Bekoff and Jane Goodall. Also “A Wolf Called Romeo” by Jans Nick. It also ends with human malfeasance. When I have had enough of the Trump war on the earth I pick up a book from these authors.

  63. avatar rork says:

    https://www.hcn.org/issues/51.18/hunting-killing-bullwinkle-big-money-and-controversy-surround-western-trophy-hunts
    This is partly about one persons illegal behavior, but it’s the auctioning off of elk tags that interested me. By their logic (for the money, it is worth having it be just for the rich) almost every elk tag in some western states should be sold to the highest bidder. But the people wouldn’t stand for that. So they do it in moderation, hoping that makes it OK.

  64. avatar rork says:

    https://www.crainsdetroit.com/economy/fewer-hunters-means-fewer-dollars-michigans-conservation-programs
    This reviews the particulars of the money in my state, but the problem is common to many others. A mushroom-brandishing commenter thinks that general fund investment would pay for itself via increased tourism in Michigan.

  65. avatar rork says:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/michigan-house-votes-to-ok-deer-baiting-during-hunting-season/ar-AAJUyxz
    Several other places for that. House trying to overturn our deer baiting ban instituted by our DNR and NRC. There’s one Republican quoted who is not going for it, which was refreshing. I advocate no baiting anywhere, and serious reduction in deer densities, though that will be economically bad in the short term, and most hunters don’t like lower densities, cause they don’t really care that much about deer or the land (plants, other animals, farmers), and/or are blind to the environmental costs.

  66. avatar Chris Zinda says:

    The Wyden/Merkley Owyhee Bill is not good:

    https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-merkley-introduce-legislation-to-boost-economic-development-in-malheur-county

    * One of the first things in the entire bill is a definition of Active Management.

    * It codifies a collaborative group of decisionmakers dominated by ranchers (6 of 13) and gives 6 spots to a combination of conservation orgs & rec interests, equating the two. 8 of 13 must reside in the area, ceeding to local control & rendering BLM DMs/Field Mgrs almost moot.

    * Exempts this group from the Federal Committee Advisory Act.

    * Codifies the area an ‘active/adaptive management’ laboratory/model of “fire science” (no matter the OG Juni; soon needed to protect fire starting recreationists).

    * Speaks to carrying capacities for cattle but not humans, to Suspended AUMs and restoring them.), just like recent Emery County/Swell bill.

    * Vale BLM gets extra FTE & funding. $37 million / year for 10 years; $7M of it / year to Burns Paiute. Total cost: $148 million.

    * All proposed wilderness are those proposed by Rait & Pew, and allow grazing.

    https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2018/08/21/5-reasons-to-protect-public-lands-in-southeastern-oregon

    * Mechanical treatment (chainsaws;dozers) are authorized for ‘first responders’ and chemicals are allowed for invasive species in wilderness & scenic river corridor.

    * Road setbacks (clearing) of 300′ from centerline.

    * Directs 3 loop roads be developed along with “Travel Oregon,” codifying motor based industrial tourism, later a management plan likely to include formal campgrounds. (https://traveloregon.com/) The collection of fees/tolls is authorized. Travel Oregon is directed to develop a marketing plan.

  67. avatar Nancy says:

    And so it goes

    https://www.npr.org/2019/11/10/777219377/as-backcountry-travelers-shift-load-to-goats-national-forests-eye-risks

    Seems to me, too many humans are no longer able to just get out and enjoy what’s left of the great outdoors/wildness areas, without some sort of assistance…….

    • avatar idaursine says:

      I don’t know what to say. They should definitely be banned in areas of bighorn sheep habitat, and what if a predator is drawn in?

  68. avatar idaursine says:

    I took a peek over at the Predator Defense website, and *shudder*, read the following. Of course, because it happened at a school is the reason why:

    https://www.humanesociety.org/news/humane-society-united-states-and-predator-defense-condemn-oregon-agencies-killing-bobcat

  69. avatar idaursine says:

    I don’t know if this is the resolution to one of the ‘self-defense’ grizzly killings that happened over the last couple of months:

    https://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/washington-man-pleads-not-guilty-to-illegal-transportation-of-grizzly/article_8a49d648-991d-5725-9ee9-9d58e96735f3.html

    • avatar idaursine says:

      Thanks for posting, many interesting things.

      “Seven wolf deaths were recorded among park wolves in 2018. Of those, three were shot by hunters outside the park’s boundary. The most well-known was 926F, a female wolf killed by a hunter near the small community of Silver Gate near the Northeast Entrance. That legal harvest prompted an outpouring of anger at the hunter, drawing national attention.”

      Lazy ambush human predators, hovering around the park boundaries. 🙁

  70. avatar idaursine says:

    Let me further ask the question that if wolf-on-wolf attacks are the biggest cause of wolf death (followed closely by human-on-wolf attacks, I am sure) – isn’t his evidence of the ability of wolves to self-manage their own populations, and they do not need the ‘assistance’ of humans? This would seem nature’s way? There was also a mention of a male wolf being rough with some pups and there was loss there. No need for human ‘judgement’, because we can’t even manage our own behavior.

  71. avatar louise kane says:

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/11/16/bay-area-open-space-district-proposes-killing-mountain-lions-to-help-cattle-ranchers/

    Public lands purchased for conservation, then some of the lands were leased for cattle, and big surprise the ranchers now asking for permission to kill wildlife. Sickening

    • avatar idaursine says:

      How did anyone allow this? Couple of highlights (or lowlights):

      “The Midpeninsula Regional Open Space District, a government agency based in Los Altos and funded by property taxes, owns 65,000 acres — an area twice the size of San Francisco — across San Mateo and Santa Clara counties.”

      “But officials at the Midpeninsula district say grazing is an important tool to reduce fire risk by keeping grass and vegetation in check. They also say it helps support agriculture — a politically influential constituency in rural Santa Clara and San Mateo counties.”

      George? Here they go again. 🙁

      “The ranchers pay $14.58 per month in rent for each cow and calf pair that they run on the district’s open space preserves. That’s among the lowest rate of any local parks or open space agency in the Bay Area.”

      One article says $16 and change, the other says $14.

      https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2019/11/16/bay-area-open-space-district-proposes-killing-mountain-lions-to-help-cattle-ranchers/

  72. avatar Mareks Vilkins says:

    ‘We are running out of time’: Murder and corruption threaten Europe’s last great forests

    Recent murders highlight destructive battle between those trying to protect ancient forests and illegal loggers, writes Stephen McGrath in Bucharest

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/romania-forest-ranger-murder-deforestation-environment-illegal-logging-a9193896.html

  73. avatar idaursine says:

    Gauging by the last three posts, it’s going to be a difficult job to change human history. Heavy sigh. 🙁

  74. avatar Immer Treue says:

    It’s the small, incremental evidence such as this, that tell us something is coming on. Add all the seemingly insignificant phenomena together, back up and look at the whole, what is transpiring becomes as evident as the subject of impressionist art.

    http://e.startribune.com/Olive/ODN/StarTribune/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=MST%2F2019%2F11%2F11&entity=Ar00101&sk=9AC00CCA&mode=text&fbclid=IwAR2o0ZvGZtrXohStPv_25PSB4Bj8yqZnD9xyb_KCo8AR3mjlTGD6JIn6wb4

    • avatar Immer Treue says:

      One must continually ask how?

    • avatar idaursine says:

      These repeated accidents are sad, and it’s just that in today’s world, we can put a gun in anyone’s hands and outfit them, and they can call themselves a hunter – a budding psychopath, someone without any experience, or inept.

      I’m not a hunting supporter, but I will say that before modern times, it was a lot ‘purer’ – not corrupted by money such as everything is today.

      Even those who claim hunting for meat is healthier are under delusion, I think – there’s very little on earth that hasn’t been affected by chemicals of human activities, whether lead, herbicides and pesticides, PCBs, and you don’t know what that poor animal has been subjected to.

    • avatar idaursine says:

      ^^From the article:

      “Hunters in Wyoming killed 457 black bears in 2018, according to the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. The Idaho Department of Fish and Game didn’t have that information immediately available on Monday.”

      Doesn’t that number just boggle the mind? And that’s just Wyoming, not NJ, PA and elsewhere (I don’t think FL has a black bear season anymore). Idaho hasn’t divulged their number of black bear kills yet.

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‎"At some point we must draw a line across the ground of our home and our being, drive a spear into the land and say to the bulldozers, earthmovers, government and corporations, “thus far and no further.” If we do not, we shall later feel, instead of pride, the regret of Thoreau, that good but overly-bookish man, who wrote, near the end of his life, “If I repent of anything it is likely to be my good behaviour."

~ Edward Abbey

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