Bill would allow Idahoans to sue over [non-existent, never before happened] wolf deaths

Is this the kind of political environment the federal government ought hand wolf management over to?

We are amidst a recession. The state of Idaho is cutting funding for social services across the board – including education for our children. For anyone who ever doubted the depth of the political dysfunction/delusion that afflicts the great statehouse in Idaho, I present to you :

Bill would allow Idahoans to sue over wolf deaths AP (via Idaho Statesman)

His bill would allow survivors of potential victims to sue and would make it a felony for people to protect killer wolves, punishable by up to five years in state prison and a $50,000 fine.

Added March 23. In addition, this is ham-handed attempt to try to somehow prosecute a person who supported the restoration of wolves to the state of Idaho. The bill is unconstitutional in a number of ways, but, nevertheless, very insulting. Ralph Maughan.



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  1. Mike Avatar

    hahhahah wow! They must be living on another planet over there.

  2. mikarooni Avatar

    It’s all a result of the magic underwear.

  3. Ken Cole Avatar

    I remember my first beer 😉

  4. JimT Avatar

    You know, I did my grad work at Arizona State in the 70s and then lived in the Valley of the Hot Steering Wheel That Gives One Second Degree Burns for several years. The state had some real odd folks win elections at the highest levels and was generally regarded as a “odd” state, but I think Idaho is giving Arizona a run for its money these days. Must be hard, being a rational human being and living in that state these days…VBG.

    I thought Ed Bangs comments particularly uninspired and insipid. I think Ed is overdue for retirement…

  5. kt Avatar

    Well, if you think this is bad – just wait.

    If cattle rancher Ken Salazar, recently quoted in Newsweek sputtering inananities about ranchers being the stewards of the universe – allows the gray wolf to be de-listed – wolves in Idaho will be thrown into the hands of the Ship of Fools that is the Idaho Legislature in tandem with our esteemed Governor (“I want the first permit to shoot one!”) cowboy C. L. Butch Otter.

    Here is the Salazar nonsense.

    Public lands ranchers lay waste to the arid lands of the Interior West, and are responsible for the insane hatred of wolves and the natural world – as embodied by the frothing idiots in the Idaho Legislature who do the bidding of ranchers and the Farm Bureau.

    Salazar bragging about canceling oil and gas leases – those leases were already enjoined by a court. PLUS – BLM issues many thousands of oil and gas leases every year. This was a symbolic act, and a drop in the bucket. Likely he’ll tweak a few more – get a headline or two – then throw wolves to the like of the ID and WY Legislatures. It will be a bloodbath. And cringing Right for Idaho wanna-bes like Minnick (who pathitically keeps trying to out-Republican the Republicans in this state) will have helped bring it about.

    Brian or Ken – Do you (or anyone) have the early action by the Legislature – several years ago – that you could Post side-by-side with this? media needs to know how deep, seething and pervasive the ranching industry hatred for wolves is in idaho. Ralph likely has a link somewhere in an older Post …

  6. Ken Cole Avatar

    Rep. Phil Hart, R-Athol
    Notice where he’s from.

  7. kt Avatar

    You just can’t make this stuff up!

    I note that Athol, Hart’s homeland, is up there in White Supremacist land and hard, hard, hard core gun nut land. There are interesting links at Mr. Hart’s Bio page – He believes that taxes lead to the fall of nations. So Brian – I don’t think Mr Hart cares at all about school children. He wants to drown gov’t in a bath tub. So of course these frivolous bills are just what this Athol would thrive on doing in the ID Leigislature …

  8. JEFF E Avatar
    JEFF E

    I Have it on good authority that each days’ legislative session starts with the song “Bring In The Clowns.” Copied from A tradition started in Wyoming

  9. kt Avatar

    Jeff E: The old Borah Post Office has a sign for a $25 prayer breakfast coming up soon with some of the esteemed ID politico personages. Butch’s picture I believe is on the poster. Will have to check again. BUT – Can’t imagine what might go on in a Legislative session warm-up event like that: “Give us our day … our daily dose of delusions, death and depravity” …

    And for proprieties sake: I did mean to put “resident” after Athol, but hit submit too soon …

  10. Salle Avatar

    Well, the “send in the clowns” or bring in the clowns may actually be appropriate yet since the last line of the lyrics goes like this,

    “Send in the clowns… Don’t bother, they’re here.”

    Lest we forget the finer details…

    And the last prevailing argument against the stimulus Bill yesterday was that spending on mass transit is not job producing or any kind of stimulus; presumably because rural communities won’t be helped by this.

    The rationale is waaaay out there and I can only hope that with all the senseless blustering of the once powerful village idiots will soon feel the teeth of the constituency biting them in the hind end as they are chased out of office in the next election cycle.

    My main fantasy for states like Idaho is that folks who have actually benefited from proper education and rational thought processes will become legislators in the near future. Mind you, I said “fantasy” because I really wonder if any such thing is possible. Note that the paltry spending on education in the state prior to all of Gov. Otter’s budget cuts was rated at 49th in he nation.

    I’ve often said that in Idaho they are proud of their ignorance and wear it like a badge of honor… I still mean it because they are still flaunting it.

  11. Lives with Wolves Avatar
    Lives with Wolves

    I live at the end of a private road here in Idaho, and over the past two weeks a new pack of wolves in the area has killed three deer on the road.

    Part of me wants to rejoice that they are here, but another part of me is sickened that people who claim to care about wildlife tend to sound the people responding to the Statesman report. I just can’t quite convince myself to join a cause that requires me to leave courtesy and decency at the door.

    Salle, you just insulted all Idahoans with your “I’ve often said that in Idaho they are proud of their ignorance and wear it like a badge of honor… I still mean it because they are still flaunting it,” and then you wonder why people here don’t want to take sides with you. People like you, in my opinion, are the ignorant ones. You turn people away from good causes because of your vicious self-righteous ignorance.

    Is it not possible to advocate for wolves without gushing bile the way Salle and others do. It does not help the wolf cause, and it pisses off a lot of good people like me.

  12. billybob Avatar

    Why don’t they introduce a bill allowing us to sue the Idaho Fish and Game if a deer/elk collides with a vehicle and leads to a human death.Something must be done to stop these menaces to the roadways.

  13. Save bears Avatar
    Save bears


    What would your solution be to the wild animals running around willy nilly? Maybe you should slow down?

  14. teklanika Avatar

    “His bill would allow survivors of potential victims to sue and would make it a felony for people to protect killer wolves, punishable by up to five years in state prison and a $50,000 fine.”

    How would a person protect one of these mythical killer wolves? Would you just let it use your barn as a hideout for a while, or would you follow it around and jump in the way if someone shoots at it? I guess you could provide it with a bullet proof wolf vest…

  15. GrizRich Avatar

    I don’t think a majority of Idahoans would support this type of legisltation. I have been to several wolf hearings in Idaho in the past several years, and the vast majority of testimony I have heard is in support of wolves. Those hearings have been in Boise but you would hear a different story, out in the highlands. Yes wolves are dangerous but so are bears, falling trees and rolling have to be cautious. You are safer hiking in wolf country than taking a stroll through your local community. There are an average of 26 fatalities a year in the United States due to attacks by domestic dogs. You have to keep things in perspective.

  16. GrizRich Avatar

    as far as protecting killer wolves…I have no plans of stowing one away in my garage.

  17. billybob Avatar

    Save bears
    My last post was meant as a joke.That bill would make as much sense as the one being proposed now.

  18. Save bears Avatar
    Save bears

    Really Billy,

    I knew that, I was being sarcastic!


  19. billybob Avatar

    I thought so just making sure.They also need to intro a bill asking other states to take Idaho’s pit bulls and rottweillers.
    Anything to keep from working on our state’s REAL problems.

  20. mikarooni Avatar

    Maybe he got his magic underwear wedged in his Athol.

  21. kt Avatar

    billybob: Yes, and there should be population caps on how many of those “weedy” deer and elk are allowed to be running around to cause potential collisions. Any excess, and the state of Idaho should be liable. Take it out of the State Legislators salaries – OR their health care benefits. i recall an article a couple of years ago talking about how, if these clowns serve for 4 or so years, they get access to state health benefits, or something. You understand – they are in session actually doing something only3 or 4 months in the dark days of winter – until it becomes potato field nematicide application time, or ground squirrel plinking time – then they scurry back home to the holes they crawled out of.

    In fact, I wonder if there is going to be any kind of cut at all in state legislator benefits during these financial straits?

    Check out the Leg. per diem

    $122/day for members establishing second residence in Boise. $49/day if no second residence is established and up to $25/day travel (V) set by Compensation Commission.

    Mr Athol likely gets 122 a day for parkginhis eminence in Boise.

  22. Brian Ertz Avatar

    What’s the deal with the state Democrats on stuff like this – if Republicans are going to use the statehouse as some kind of disinformation bully-pulpit, there needs to be some real opposition.

  23. kt Avatar

    Athol’s previously most famous resident … Maybe Phil Hart will surpass him with this kind of thing.

    “ A member of the white supremacist group the Order has been sentenced to life in prison for killing a state trooper.

    The killer, David Tate, 23 years old, of Athol, Idaho, was sentenced here Monday in Boone County Circuit”.

    Also – Athol has around 600 and some residents. I wonder how Mr. Hart feels about racial issues …

  24. kt Avatar

    I am not posting the link here – but in continuing word searching Athol, ID and words like whit supremacist, I came across a “Stormfront” (any guesses who they might be) Link from 2003 that included an AP story datelined Athol Idaho that described the white supremacists holding a get-together in a state park. Kind yu not.

    So let me get this straight – from the previous link (1986 NY Times article on slaying of a state trooper by a white supremacist from Athol, ID), now this 2003 article abut Athol and a white supremacist conclave/picnic of some kind – we now in 2009 have an esteemed Republican member of the ID Leg who lives in the hamlet of Athol known for its human hate mentality – introducing a Bill in the ID Legislature that shows the hatred of Idaho for wolves.

    I think it would be a fascinating Thesis or dissertation to examine the links between the psychology of this all … Phil Hart (R-Hate Central) is scared of wolves …

  25. kt Avatar

    And then there is this 2006 Link about yet another fine resident of Athol (for a town of 600 it sure has its share … of … Haters):

    So … it appears that nearly all the populace is of .. shall we say … a certain mindset. SO – are these Hart’s constituents in Butch Otter’s Idaho that may get rewarded by rancher Ken Salazar if he decides to de-list wolves???


  26. Save bears Avatar
    Save bears


    Not condoning at all, I hate these types of groups, but every town in America has it share of ignorance and hate…

  27. kt Avatar

    Uh – Save Bears — maybe you are not familiar with the Hate History and climate in northern Idaho. Idaho has tried to downplay this mindset recently – it’s bad for the Image, and luring some folks to buy prperty in the piney woods – and then suddenly they fond themselves in the midst if real wackos.

    Athol town seems to win the per capita prize – pop. 600 and some – and all of this Hatred shows up.

    There is a Lewiston Tribune article that I could not access – have to pay – but the teaser sure sounds like Mr. Hart is so rabid about swarthy-skinned immigrants that he is breaking ranks with some Repubs. and wants to go after anyone that employs them, too. Note the locatin of the other fine Leigislator: Hayden Lake …. Hre’s what comes up from Googling:

    Lawmakers target illegal immigrants
    Found: 2 Months 19 Hours 23 Minutes ago
    Lewiston Morning Tribune – COEUR D’ALENE – Two northern Idaho lawmakers say they will introduce legislation that would penalize employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.Sen. Mike Jorgenson, R-Hayden Lake, and Rep. Phil Hart, R-Athol, said they will try to pass the proposed law that has been rejected the past two years.Lawmakers in the last session rejected a bill that would have required […] …

    I also found some campaign contribution disclosure forms for Hart. Business entities and PACs. Something called Altria – which Wikipedia shows is Philip Morris big tobacco. Some Quest pac in Boise (don’t know what that is but it can’t be good). The Prison/Corrections Industry. AND Verizon …!!! And some others. ‘Twould be interesting to profile who, exactly, donates to this fine fellow. Are our cell phone calls helping someone of Hart’s philosophy get elected? It appears so.

  28. Save bears Avatar
    Save bears


    I live in northern Idaho, currently Sandpoint, I am very familiar with these slimy ignorant hate groups..When I lived in WA we had them as well as where I lived in MT.

    There were areas we hunted in WA that you were afraid to drive through, where I lived in Montana was real close to the stand off that happened several years ago…

    So don’t tell me I am not familiar with these groups, when you do field work as a biologist you often run into these jerks in many areas of the country, which is why I carry when I am doing field work. They have a real tendency to not like people who work for the Government, which I did at the time.

  29. kt Avatar

    Spokesman Review again:

    “Rep. Wayne Meyer, R-Rathdrum, lost to Phil Hart in the Republican primary, but now Meyer has filed as a write-in candidate against Hart in the general election.

    Hart had lost to Meyer two years earlier when Hart was the Constitution Party candidate. This spring, he ran as a Republican and beat Meyer.

    There’s no Democrat in the race – just the Republican primary victor and the Republican write-in incumbent”.[Typical ID election].

    SO – Hart was a Constitution Party candidate.

    The Constitution Party is what Sarah and Todd Palin were so deeply into – you know – Alaska succeeding from the Union – and becoming its own Oil-i-garchy, and all that!

    This is kind of explained here:

    Maybe the other link is that they all loathe wolves. Again, these are the folks that Ken Salazar would be de-listing wolves into the hands/scopes of … to a crtain bloodbath.

  30. cobra Avatar

    This beating up on Idaho residents is really starting to get old. I’ve lived in 5 states and been in all but 5 and every state has it’s share of people that march t the beat of a different drum. Idaho does have some wack jobs just as other states but I’ve lived here 20 years and have met some very interesting and well educated people, just because they may not share you’re viewpoints does not make them less intelligent. Out of the states I’ve lived in Idaho is my favorite with western Colorado running a close second. In my opinion a bloodbath of the wolves by de-listing could never happen, their here to stay whether hunted or not. Idaho has rugged and thick terrain and wolves are very intelligent and cagey and through hunting would be even more so.

  31. Layton Avatar

    I sometimes wonder how I seem to enjoy living in a backward state like Idaho. I’m a native, don’t belong to any hate groups, have a wife and family, served some time in the military (the US Navy, not a militia), possess a reasonably high IQ, and had a pretty successful career with a couple of very well respected high tech companies. I also have most of my teeth, enjoy the outdoors, enjoy a beer once in awhile, spend some time hunting and fishing, and have never been arrested for beating my wife or for a hate crime of any sort.

    When I see headlines in my local paper about “2009 SPECIAL OLYMPICS” that also mention – 3500 ATHLETES AND COACHES –OVER 100 COUNTRIES – 5000 VOLUNTEERS — $31 MILLION DOLLARS (that’s donations) – and 55,000 HANDMADE SCARVES – it makes me proud.

    When I see the idiotic comments by the muckrakers and malcontents on this blog about MY state – it makes me angry – no, put it plain, it pisses me off!!

    If I look up who Moses Alexander was, I find out that he was the governor in Idaho from 1915 to 1919, the FIRST JEWISH man elected as governor IN ANY U.S. STATE!! Oh, yes, before that he was also the mayor of Boise.

    Then I see someone on this blog yapping about what a white supremacist haven MY state is, how it has a “hate history”, and a “human hate mentality” – and it pisses me off!!

    Six or eight famous (infamous?) “nut jobs” from a town of less than 600 people light the fire of some people that have nothing more to do than scour the Internet for the most sensational headlines they can find – then they try to convince those around them that the whole state and all the people in it are of that ilk!! Get a life!!

    Then of course there are people through Idaho’s history like a man named William Borah, one of the longest serving men in the United States Senate(1906-1940). But could a man like this be from a backward state like Idaho??

    How about another Senator from Idaho, by the name of Frank Church – have you folks that think Idaho is so backward bothered to figure out where the largest contiguous designated wilderness area in the lower 48 is, or which backward, hate filled, resident of Idaho sponsored the legislation that created it??

    I spent about .02 minutes coming up with these more memorable folks from Idaho history. Maybe the “Idaho is inhabited by morons” folks could find some like them if they tried.

    One would think that the denizens of this blog that hate Idaho so badly would be unable to be associated with the state. But is that how it works?? Not so much. Some of the people making the nastiest comments and digging up the most salacious rumors actually live here!! Does the word hypocrite ring a bell? If you hate the place so much how do you abide by the goings on around you?? Wouldn’t it be better for your health and well being to be able to bitch from a remote location??

  32. Salle Avatar

    I think, after residing in Idaho and paying attention to their politics and population control devices for 14 years, I can attest that they are certainly a group of folks that have tested my patience to the max. If you aren’t exactly pale skinned, blonde, blue-eyed and of a certain persuasion, like me, you most certainly are at a disadvantage in all forms of life and livelihood. College education doesn’t matter. You have to meet the criteria of the “persuasion” or you are pretty much “encouraged” to “move on” or be persuaded even though you can never be fully accepted because of your appearance. I never received so many threats to my personal well-being anywhere as I have from residents of Idaho and surrounding areas.

    I have lived in NE Washington, in Butch Otter’s district in north central Idaho, SE Idaho and SW Montana and I find a lot of the same attitude. I grew up primarily in the NE states where immigrants are the norm, Boston and coastal cities and countryside and southern California… it was quite the culture shock moving to this region of the country where criteria for acceptance was so narrow and ubiquitous. I grew up hearing many languages, eating all kinds of ethnic foods and exposed to multiple cultures, all in one small region about half the size of Idaho… and there were few clashes among them.

    This regionalized hatred is either openly blatant or subdued and masked as “the way it is” because it’s “god’s will” period. Jobs are not available to you, housing is not available – even if you have the ability to pay cash for a house, you can easily be undermined by the realtor who has a less qualified, by federal standards, buyer who is a member of the “persuasion”. Like Israelis, they consider this a holy land and anyone not of their sacred order can exist comfortably within its boundaries. Some are more extreme, like those who identify members by appearance, and more apt to use violence to maintain their pseudo control over the “realm”.

    Hatred is born out of fear. Fear of competition or lack of control over others and dominance over nature-they call themselves stewards; fear of being controlled by anyone not of their persuasion, fear of unknown processes, fear of not being the chosen…

    I love my bumper sticker given to me by a Native American friend that says:

    Real Men Aren’t Afraid of Wolves.

    I display it proudly in my window which is in view of a group of guys that have blatant anti-wolf stickers all over their trucks. I am not afraid of them or anyone else, including wolves, bears, thunderstorms or volcanoes. 🙂

  33. Izabela Matej Avatar
    Izabela Matej

    where can I get that sticker.
    I think I would piss off 90% of Utahns by posting it and some of the Island Park residents.
    I definitely have a place in my cabin in Island Park to shleter few the bad wolfies…just kidding.
    Who in the hell comes up with the ideas like this? Must be the water..full of cows piss…
    Why do they waste my tax money? I pay Idaho taxes.
    I think this is insane. Idaho getting bail out money?
    If yes, time to write to Obama to tell him no money for Idaho to spend on ridiciolous bills.
    Izabela Matej

  34. Barb Avatar

    Salle, where could I get a bumper sticker like that — Real Men aren’t afraid of wolves? 🙂

    I’ve always been much more fearful of a bunch of crazy or drunk beer-drinking hunters in the woods than the possibility of meeting up with a pack of wolves.

  35. Barb Avatar

    Salle, if you don’t mind, what ethnicity are you? I liked your posting how you grew up in the NE with many ethnicities. I grew up near Detroit and I was exposed to many ethnicities and cultures — from Catholic Iraqis (Dearborn, MI has the highest concentration of middle eastern people outside of the mideast) to Irish immigrants to people from Sri Lanka and India, Italians, Jews, Polish, blacks, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, and everything in between! I am SOOOOO grateful that I did not grow up in the “white” west as I don’t think I’d be nearly as street smart and I would hate to be so narrow minded, ignorant, and bigoted as many area, sadly (not all of course). (I am of German-Polish descent so I am blonde but with brown eyes) so I guess by looks only, I’m more accepted, UNTIl they hear my views on things! 🙂

  36. Salle Avatar

    I’ll ask my friend if he has any more. Or you could just have some made and spread them around like my friend does. He said they came from a friend of his who lives in Cody or Pinedale (or some place near there) in Sublet County Wyoming ~ which is pleasantly surprising.

  37. Save bears Avatar
    Save bears

    If you have an ink jet printer and the right material you can pretty much make any bumper sticker your heart desires, I picked up some bumper sticker material at an office depot and print my own, they hold up to the weather and people are always asking where they can get one, I have printed some doozies, believe me!

  38. Salle Avatar


    Though I appear to many as some kind of Native American, I am actually predominantly German, Finnish, and some other western European ancestry. Oddly, half of my siblings from the same parents, are blonde, blue-eyed and so are their children, two like identical to my father’s mother, a Fin, and I look like my father.

    I am glad, too, that I was exposed to a wide spectrum of culture and language when I was young, it has been helpful all my life., everyone else takes after my mother’s totally European, (German, French, Irish) family from northern Wisconsin.

    I think one of our great national embarassments is that we have no respect for other cultures regardless of origin and insist that everyone should want to be like the people we see in entertainment (TV mostly). If we learned to respect other cultures and peoples, we wouldn’t so inclined to control or kill them as a response to finding them different.

  39. Izabela Matej Avatar
    Izabela Matej

    I am full Polish – a real transplant from Poland 24 years ago.
    Now I live in Utah and PT in Idaho.
    My husband who is American thinks that one day they will SSS to me for my views 🙂 on ‘managment’ of wildlife inlculgin wolves, bisons and other.

    I recently noticed int he bookstore a magazine ‘Predator Hunting’ I thought I am going to have heart attack.
    Who in the hell would buy this type of magazine.
    Oh..I guess I am naive.

    Salle, when you get the stickers, please e-mail me.

  40. Lefty Wright Avatar
    Lefty Wright

    Yes, it is true. Stay away from Idaho. Beware of our wackos that hate wildlife, wolves, hippies, REI-fairies traipsing to and fro through our unforgiving mountains. We are staunch Republicans that don’t support education, that rape the natural landscape, and allow our cows to shit all over the place. Plus, our white supremacists will beat you up and our wolves will eat you.

    Please, please stay out of Idaho. Or, if you must travel across one of our two interstates, enter quietly and leave quickly. There isn’t any wildlife to see, no mountains worthy to climb, no rivers to run.

    Please, stay out (so I can continue to have the greatest back country in the world all to myself).

    Idaho Welcoming Committee
    Back of Beyond, ID

  41. Ralph Maughan Avatar

    Actually I thought Ed Bangs comments were pretty good, especially the comparison of the danger of deer with wolves.

    I had thought wolves would be more fearsome to people than they have been . . . . 14 years and not even a single nip!

    Ed said it right, but it’s more fun to say what a bunch of dumb f–Ks!!


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Brian Ertz