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Note that this replaces “Have you come across any interesting wildlife news? Second January thread”  which can still access by clicking the link.

About The Author

Ralph Maughan

Dr. Ralph Maughan is professor emeritus of political science at Idaho State University. He was a Western Watersheds Project Board Member off and on for many years, and was also its President for several years. For a long time he produced Ralph Maughan's Wolf Report. He was a founder of the Greater Yellowstone Coalition. He and Jackie Johnson Maughan wrote three editions of "Hiking Idaho." He also wrote "Beyond the Tetons" and "Backpacking Wyoming's Teton and Washakie Wilderness." He created and is the administrator of The Wildlife News.

531 Responses to Have you come across any interesting wildlife news? February 2012

  1. Salle says:

    Pakistani fishermen reel in 40-foot whale shark

    Unfortunately the animal was sold and probably won’t go through any analysis on what killed it. It’s more likely to be eaten and rendered for oil.

  2. somsai says:

    Probably need to thin the populations a little. News flash, big carnivores sometimes like to eat people.

    • Jay says:

      11 people dead climbing mountains…probably need to bulldoze them down to a safer height. News flash, living sometimes leads to dying.

    • somsai,

      As I figured, it was a young male cougar. Attacks like this are almost always young males searching for territory. Big cougar deep in backcountry don’t do this. I also suspect that the attack might have had some relationship to the extreme drought gripping the area.

      Backcountry hunts to reduce the population are worse than useless. We have discussed the sorry story of Washington state here many times. After trouble with cougar around the suburbs and farms, the state decided they needed a big general cougar hunt. So hunters headed for the prime cougar country and killed a lot of big males that keep the youngsters in line. As the cougar population declined, the problems with the young males,now freed from restraint got worse and worse.

      Here is a back story. Special Washington cougar hunt backfires. March 17, 2008

      • somsai says:

        I’d certainly agree that the place where the woods meats the city is where most wildlife problems occur, wether cats or deer or whatever. It’s also the place that is nearly impossible to have man induced wildlife control, due to social pressure as well as different ownership and rules regarding public lands.

        California should be a prime place to study the entire phenomenon. So much cat country, so many people blurring the edges of what is city and what is country. Though they have the highest number of fatalities I think altogether cougars seem to not be much of a problem. I’d generalize and say other than isolated incidents they seem relatively problem free. If they were leopards I’d expect 50 times the difficulties.

        • Ralph Maughan says:

          This is only a bit related to the comments above, but there was interesting article yesterday how the cats (domestic, bobcat, and mountain lion) in the southern California and also the Colorado Front maze of freeways, highways, pieces of undeveloped property, larger chunks of fairly undeveloped country all share the same diseases, included two that are potential serious for people — our “old friend” toxiplasmosis and lesser know cat scratch disease. The latter is another one of what are called “emerging diseases” like Lyme Disease. It too is probably caused by more than one pathogenic organism.

          Domestic Cats, and Wild Bobcats and Pumas, Living in Same Area Have Same Diseases” Science News. By Donna William

          • somsai says:

            I heard that on NPR or CO public radio, but saw nothing on my regular sources. I assume toxiplasmosis must be that parasite carried by wild canines. Thank You for the link. We have a very wide area of overlap of deer, the cats that feed on them, and densely built up foothills, perfect place for inter species infection.

            somsai, there isn’t another level for a reply, but I’ll take webmaster’s privilege here because it is important to understand that the parasite is indeed toxiplasmosis, but the direction of infection is primarily from feral domestic cats to wild cats (bobcats and cougars). Toxiplasmosis also infects many other kinds of wildlife almost always doing at least some degree of harm to them. Cat scratch disease is an “emerging disease” spread mostly by feral cats.

            Some will not like this, but it is my opinion that feral cats are a serious source of disease and they badly need to have their populations reduced for sake of the health of humans and all the other animals, wild and domestic. Ralph Maughan

  3. WM says:

    Don’t think there will be any wolf reintroductions in CO anytime soon.

    • somsai says:

      I’m on the mailing list of the org mentioned, Big Game Forever, I’d call them pro management rather than anti wolf. They have a pretty good video on their front page right now that lays out their viewpoint.

      The pro wolf management side of things is much smaller and much later to the game but I think they have the wind at their backs as the pendulum seems to be about to swing back the other way.

      Ken Salazar comes from the valley that includes the Baca National Wildlife Refuge, it’s an extremely beautiful place.

      • Mike says:

        That has to be one of the dumbest sites I’ve ever seen. The grey wolf is not over-populated in the lower 48.

        I’d be embarrassed to be affiliated with any such group.

        No doubt it’s entirely supported by and run by hunters.

  4. Salle says:

    Federal Agencies Extend Sage Grouse Comment Period

    The U.S. Bureau of Land Management and U.S. Forest Service need the input for their environmental analyses of how conservation measures should be put in place in 10 Western states. The agencies are extending the comment period by 45 days and will accept comments until March 23.

    Comments can be emailed to sagewest@; faxed to 775-861-6747; or addressed to Western Region Project Manager, BLM Nevada State Office, 1340 Financial Blvd., Reno, NV 89502.

  5. Immer Treue says:

    This is only the first weekend tally, but it sure does not seem as though the wolves are “decimatin” those deer in Wisconsin.

  6. Doryfun says:

    Unearthing the True Cost of Fossil Fuels

    While wolf issues draw more interest and make better post ratings, the less glamorous ones, like fossil fuel induced climate change, often continue to slide by under the radar. Perhaps it seems too big? Hard to fight? Creates a larger denial controversy? – so gets put on the back burner – and this is a wildlife blog, after all. However, like population & carrying capacities, these are the bigger, fundamental things that effect our fish, wildlife, clean air, water, etc much more than our squabbles about wolves and who gets to kill what.

    Not long back I posted information on the RRI (Resource Renewal Institute) which is composed of retired natural resource professionals. They outlined a way to recover $600 billion by collecting the true cost of subsidizing giant industries that use public lands.

    I found it curious that this post received no comments. But, the following information is related and shows some great ways to go about changing this situation that adds to what the RRI has been trying to do.

    Consider these facts, just a few I gleaned from:
    (great site – interesting potential):

    Oil companies alone receive $10-40 billion in handouts yearly

    Between 1950 and 2010, $594 billion was spent directly subsidizing fossil fuels—and the lion’s share of that, almost two thirds, went to the oil industry. Coal, too, receives billions of dollars in annual federal handouts.

    Our taxpayer dollars fund the cleanup of the industry’s accidents and disasters.

    Here is the good part:

    It’s called ‘Fee and Dividend’:

    The plan is simple: charge oil, gas and coal companies a small, annually increasing fee on fossil fuels sales—then collect the fees and evenly distribute them amongst the American people.

    Seems like a good start to me, and time to begin getting this stream of concsiousness into the national conversation, so more people can get on the same wagon.

    PS – the real wolves are in the halls of DC

    • Salle says:

      I wouldn’t denigrate the nobility of wolves with that comparison… But you are correct in that they (the DC crowd) are predators, the kind we should be really concerned about.

  7. Salle says:

    This is interestingly disturbing (fortunately he has no chance of being elected but his opinions still make the rounds):

    Ron Paul Calls For The Elimination Of Public Lands

    There’s a very good reason for public lands; they exist so that they continue to exist because the states cannot be trusted to retain them rather than exploit them for elitist gains at a major expense to all others.

    • somsai says:

      You misunderstand what Paul said and the meaning of public.

      Ron Paul was calling for the elimination of federal public lands and of turning them over to another public entity, the states. State land is still public. You or I might disagree with that stance but state land is still public.

      • Doryfun says:

        Except state lands use less regulations and contribute to more exhaustion of natural resources. Why else do you think this sort of thing would be supported?

      • Salle says:


        Right. And what I was referring to is the necessity under which federal administration of these lands was designed…

        Thus, I repeat: There’s a very good reason for [federally controlled] public lands; they exist so that they [can] continue to exist because the states cannot be trusted to retain them rather than exploit them for elitist gains at a major expense to all others. phrase in [] added.

        I was not arguing the definition of “public”. I was making a point in favor of federal administration of these lands that belong to all citizens of the country, not just those in close proximity to them or the the population of the states in which they occur.

        Without regulating the activities in these public places, they would already resemble Madagascar or Somalia and the ravaged portions of the Amazon. And wildlife would exist in zoos, museums, and our memories only. And poor quality but the only available drinking water would be unavailable unless you bought it from a megacorp like coke or pepsi.

      • Mike says:

        Somsai just hates wildlife and public land it seems.

        • somsai says:

          Actually I enjoy public lands all the time, including those managed by my state which has many parks and wildlife areas. I was just noting that state lands are also public. What’s with the nastiness?

          • Mike says:

            Because you’re an anti-wildlife, anti-public lands troll.

            • Mike and all,

              We booted somsai off the blog yesterday because he was increasingly just a troll. We also gave Huard a goodbye because his comment about “taking out one of these WS pukes.” That led to the Dept. of Homeland Security becoming interested in him.

              I’d urge those who comment to think twice before they hit “post comment” if their emotions are high.

      • CodyCoyote says:

        Personally , I would wish that the State of Wyoming had absolutely no ” State” land to administer…that all public lands in Wyoming were federal. Wyoming treats its holdings very shabbily , very roughshod, always for the money to be made rather than other values. The excuse is the state Constitution mandates state lands be utilized for the maximum benefit of schools , not the public , state lands being interchangeable with school trust lands…same same. Unfortunately , that notion was long ago dispensed with by the rancher community which subverted most state lands to become defacto private leases. They are far from ” public” in nearly every sense of the word. What state lands are leased for purposes other than subsidized grazing are nearly always abused , IMHO , by poor oversight and kowtowwing special interests ( usually minerals ). Wyoming state agencies are far worse stewards of the land and environmental regulators than the feds. It’s the ” we make up our own rules around here ” playbook.

      • JEFF E says:

        The western states would not be able to afford to manage what is now federal public land. Livestock industry boot licker such as Clem wood hold a fire sale the next day. The only ones allowed to bid would be the livestock and extractive industries

  8. WM says:

    I have occasionally brought up the issue of state wildlife law enforcement in Indian Country. On the Columbia River, this has been an area of contention whenever OR or WA wildlife enforcement, state patrol or even the Columbia River Intertribal Fisheries Commission (CRITFC) cite certain tribal members exercising treaty fishing rights along the river, which often includes illegal activities which are destructive to wildlife (like leaving set nets and not tending them while they accumulate dead rotting fish, including those that are endangered species).

    In this instance a Yakama tribal member was cited for keeping 5 under length sturgeon (alive but unnecessarily out of water, and later released by WA wildlife officials) and illegally using a net at a historic tribal and treaty reserved fishing site. AFter several appeals of a citation issued by WA wildlife officials, the offending Yakama walked due to a jurisdictional dispute – the WA Supreme Court said there was no state jurisdiction at this location. Very sad, very sad, indeed.

    Who is going to catch this guy or those like him? The Yakama tribe says they will do the enforcement but never do, and then when they do the violator walks or gets a slap on the wrist.

    Here is another data point for those who would see romanticism in Native American hunting and fishing “ethics” in the 21st Century. There are lots of stories like this (usually much worse) that never get reported or make it to court.

    • jb says:

      Of course, from the tribe’s perspective, we depleted the fisheries (often through comm. harvest) dam and pollute the rivers, and then demand that tribal members fish by our standards.

      If memory serves, the Yakama treated with Isaac Stevens?

      • Salle says:

        Yes, it was Stevens. And his underhanded manner of gaining those treaties resembles what we are seeing in politics these days to some degree – hostage taking, promoting one thesis while actuating something quite different…

        Here’s a brief essay about him and some of his escapades in the NW:

      • Daniel Berg says:

        “Of course, from the tribe’s perspective, we depleted the fisheries (often through comm. harvest) dam and pollute the rivers, and then demand that tribal members fish by our standards.”

        Most native americans, or those with varying degrees of native blood (tribes like the Snoqualmies have no pure bloodlines left) are just as locked into our way of life as we are at this point. Do mistakes that those of european ancestry made in generations past make it okay for tribal members to violate their own rules in some cases and get away with it? As an aside, tribal members also participate in commercial harvesting of fish like salmon, and have been accused of egregious over-harvest in places like the Fraser River.

        I also grew up next to a reservation, and friends and I witnessed acts(over a period of about 15 years) by tribal members that no white man or native should be able to get away with given current state of things. Not that you have this bias, but there is a tendency apply different standards to native and non-native wildlife abusers.

        I would venture to guess that Salle’s response, for instance, would have been different had it been a non-native angler that was keeping sturgeon under-length.

        • JB says:


          My comment was in reference to this statement:

          “Here is another data point for those who would see romanticism in Native American hunting and fishing “ethics” in the 21st Century.”

          Our modern ethical considerations are (in part) due to the fact that European-Americans, through our own behavior depleted the resource in the first place. Then after we depleted the resource, we changed our behavior (both through moral and legal prescriptions) and ask Natives to give up their treaty rights because of our own overzealous consumption.

          Note: I understand there is much “gray area” here; I’m just offering the opposing perspective.

        • Salle says:

          “I would venture to guess that Salle’s response, for instance, would have been different had it been a non-native angler that was keeping sturgeon under-length.”

          And you would be correct, however, my sense that there has never really been justice afforded the indigenous peoples of this continent or any other where the Europeans went and”conquered” those indigenous folks. What our ancestors did to them was on a caliber for which there is no statute of limitations and, therefore, I have no sympathies for the Euro-Americans, when they break their own laws. When someone of a different culture which was outlawed for the convenience of ethnic cleansing, break the laws of their oppressors, that’s something altogether different, n’est ce pas?.

    • Doryfun says:


      In reference to your romanticism comment about Indian fishing and hunting ehtics –

      “Killing the White Man’s Indian” – by Fergus M. Bordewich, might give you some insight into myths and misconceptions that help reveal what tribal life, and politics is like these days. Just a thought.

      All cultures have people who do bad things. No one is excempt or has a monopoly on that. Easy to stereotype and generalize.

  9. Salle says:

    “Who is going to catch this guy or those like him? The Yakama tribe says they will do the enforcement but never do, and then when they do the violator walks or gets a slap on the wrist.”

    Perhaps there’s something missing in your assessment of what takes place at the tribal level… I’m not trying to defend this guy’s actions here but I do find something amiss with that statement. I wonder how much understanding and first-hand knowledge you have with regard to the tribal rights, ethical values and practices. And what might that mean compared to your values after understanding theirs?

    • WM says:


      ++I wonder how much understanding and first-hand knowledge you have with regard to the tribal rights, ethical values and practices++

      To be clear, my comment was about particular Indians (a Yakama tribal member and others who might be like him – they are poachers) in the 21st Century and how they conduct themselves TODAY, as compared to the perceived way some folks think they do. The problem is the Columbia River treaty tribes (Nez Perce, Umatilla, Yakamas and Warm Springs confederated tribes) all agreed to abide by certain rules, as among themselves AND non-Indians represented through the states of ID, OR and WA. The tribes, under CRITFC, police themselves as well as non-Indians on the river. Individual Indians who choose not to abide by the rules and their respective tribes,hurt everyone, especially those up river. Ask the Nez Perce.

      This is not about how bad Stevens was in the treaties. That is long past, and while we should not forget the past, there are legal rules that govern the river (US v. Oregon, and planning/management documents under it), giving the treaty tribes half the fish that are allowed for harvest.

      Tribes have their own personalities and ways of doing business (just like communities throughout our country). The Yakamas are considered fickle and some of their members don’t play by the rules, and that is a perception held by other tribes.

      And as for the values, Salle, I grew up next to, and spent alot of time on, the Yakama reservation. A relative (now deceased) was married to a Cowlitz, I have Makah blood relatives (one of whom is the finest people I have ever known). An uncle ran a business on the Colville reservation. My paternal great grandmother was from a Canadian First Nation tribe in Quebec (Cree, so I have been told). I studied Indian law under one of the foremost natural resources and Indian civil rights scholars in the country. So, I am not as naive or bigoted as you seem to suggest.

      And, incidentally, I have a fair amount of knowledge how CRITFC operates (This includes knowledge of some of their own intertribal enforcement horror stories, for example, when one of their own enforcement officers, a Warm Springs tribal member if I recall correctly, under sworn Oregon state patrol authority, caught and cited a Yakama for wasting game. Notwithstanding getting caught doing bad stuff, this guy got off on a technical jurisdictional issue as well).

      And, speaking of values, one of the most egregiously offensive racist jokes I ever heard was told in a public lecture by visiting law professor Vine Deloria (a Nakota Sioux and author of “Custer Died for Your Sins”) about another tribe.

      Again, the Yakamas do their own thing, possibly because they are the largest and more diverse of tribes/resevations in the Northwest. And, do not be too surprised if tribal wildlife policy does not look favorably on wolves when they show up and start working on their elk herds, cattle or horses. They are much different from the Nez Perce, for whom I have great respect.

      • Doryfun says:


        Are you in the law profession? If so, do you know Dennis Colson (UofI)
        whom represented Nez Perce in the Riggins area during the 1979-80 Rapid River Fishing Controversy?

        Luckily, we don’t have anymore circulating bumper stickers that say: “Save A Salmon, Spear an Indian,” as in the old days.

        For the most part, it seems both cultures get along pretty fair these days in our area, and is partically why a few of us local yocals 10 years ago started an annual bi-cultural salmon ceremony each May, (help promote healing old wounds, better understanding between two major cultures that share the same natural resources).

        I’m no law student but find books like Thomas R. Berger’s “A Long and Terrible Shadow – White Values, native rights in the Americas 1492-1992 very informative.

      • Salle says:

        “So, I am not as naive or bigoted as you seem to suggest.”

        My goodness. I was asking so as to avoid the illusion of having made assumptions toward you. I wasn’t implying that you were a senseless bigot. And first-hand knowledge doesn’t automatically imply tolerance or respect… FYI.

        I do find it interesting since I have little first-hand knowledge of the tribes from that specific area, especially that reservation though what I do know I learned in federal Indian Law classes-(my prof. is a well known, successful practitioner as well). I have heard of their behavior from other tribes’ members too. It seems that tribes will talk about each other regardless of the occasion… well, except sundance. As with most cultures everywhere, gatherings bring gossip.

        None the less, thanks for sharing. ;’ )

        • Salle says:

          Oh, and Vine has always been quite a character… and rarely PC.

          • WM says:

            Vine – a character yes, but dead now about five or six years. His son, Philip, was one of the several historians giving perspective in the flambouyant General Custer biography on PBS, if you saw it. I believe Nancy from this forum did.

          • Salle says:

            I don’t have or watch the tube unless it’s on someplace where I am and there’s something interesting like a good ball game.

  10. Rancher Bob says:

    Spent some time living on two of the states reservations the natives get to hunt and play by different rules. Old Indian rule never tell a child no let them learn on their own the fire is hot.

    • Salle says:

      Yup. The biggest problem they have in any issue is us trying to control every breath they take.

  11. jon says:

    Idaho rancher’s bill would OK ultralights, use of live bait for wolf control–Wolf-Control/

    • Paul says:

      Live bait? Are these people frickin nuts? Never mind I just answered my own question. This crap is getting out of hand. Ranchers have Wildlife Services at their disposal, an no-quota hunting season, trapping, and now they want this? I guess they saw how extreme the wolf killing bill in Wisconsin was and they wanted to one up it. Wildlife advocates need to start standing up to this crap. What is next for these people, land mines, artillery, air strikes (wait, they already have that).

      • Ralph Maughan says:

        Senator Siddoway says he will have his live bait protected from the wolves. Do we believe him? I don’t know, but if you read the bill, there is absolutely no requirement that the bait be protected in any way. So others who want to bait the wolves can apparently use anything, a sheep, cow, goat, dog, child (well maybe other laws would stop them).

    • Immer Treue says:

      +++live bait such as dogs +++

      Shades of Don Peay last year.

      • Paul says:

        “Under Sen. Jeff Siddoway’s plan introduced Thursday, ranchers whose livestock are molested or killed by wolves could employ powered parachutes, as well as traps baited with live animals, to target the predators within 36 hours without a permit.”

        I don’t think it is the wolves that they have to worry about “molesting” the livestock, this is Idaho after all. Sorry, I couldn’t resist 🙂

        • Ralph Maughan says:

          My guess is that Siddoway just lost out on the distribution of predator damage funds from the governor’s office for unconfirmed loses. Each year many ranchers get a special helping of ice cream from the fund.

          The land barons don’t like that going without a treat. Why accept the outcome if you are in a position to change the law?

        • Mike says:

          “Traps baited with live animals”.

          Folks, there is something very, very wrong with Idaho.

          • Salle says:

            yeah, Idaho is very different.

            So just what animals are they planning to use as bait? Whole cows or sheep? Or maybe they have found yet another use for those trophy elk that don’t get taken? And just what makes them think that just because they set a baited trap that the wolves will bother with it?

          • Paul says:


            Maybe they should just set up bus stops because according to all of the antis that is where wolves always hang out.

    • Salle says:

      And savebears got on my case when I mentioned that on of the MT senators s advocating lethal aerial gunning from drones! I have to look up that link…

      These guys are waaaay out there.

    • Mike says:

      That’s some sick stuff, jon.

    • JEFF E says:

      Siddoway has ZERO respect for the rule of law.
      A few years ago I was riding my motorcycle on Highway 20 climbing up from Little Camas Reservoir and just topping out onto the Camas Prairie when I was passed by a vehicle like I was going backwards. The speed limit is 60 MPH: I was doing 62 MPH according to my speedo. This buttwipe had to be doing 80 and accelerating. His license plate said Senate 35 which I later learned was no other than Siddoway.

      Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems to me that if one is the position to promulgate rules of law, then more so than any other person that individual should follow those rules.

      Siddoway seems to think he is some sort of feudal lord.

  12. Paul says:

    More blowback against this insane Wisconsin wolf hunting bill:

    The research from this scientist clearly show stat Wisconsinites are against most of the provisions in this bill. We will see if Suder and his cronies get the message. I somehow doubt it.

  13. Mike says:

    Rhino-saving group “accidentally” kills rhino.

    I respect their work but stuff like this is not an “accident”, no more than a hunter shooting someone’s pet or a person in a case of “mistaken” identity. This is just plain negligence.

    People are way too tranq-happy.

  14. Nancy says:

    “Vine – a character yes, but dead now about five or six years. His son, Philip, was one of the several historians giving perspective in the flambouyant General Custer biography on PBS, if you saw it. I believe Nancy from this forum did”

    WM – I don’t get the PBS channel but I do have the video Last Stand At Little Big Horn Welch/Stekler. On my bookself – Brininstool’s Troopers With Custer, Miller’s Custer’s Last Fall (The Indian Side of the Story) and Taylor’s With Custer on the Little Big Horn.

    All very interesting accounts of how that day came to be and the lives wasted.

    • Immer Treue says:

      Has anybody read “Crazy Horse and Custer” by Stephen Ambrose? I’ve seen and read a number of Custer/Crazy Horse/ Little Big Horn stories. In the PBS special on Custer, I don’t remember hearing anything about Crazy Horse. From what I have been able to piece together was that Sitting Bull may have been the central rallying figure, but it was Crazy Horse that was the central Sioux leader in the battle.

      Everything I have researched about Custer, points to a man with a hat size about 1.5 sizes too large.

      • Paul says:

        What really got me about that PBS documentary was the story of how Custer forced marched his unit through the night so he could get to a post and see his wife. One soldier died during the march. I hope it was worth it. Custer got exactly what he deserved at The Little Big Horn, his men not so much. Of course there are still people that attempt to deify the man. I would bet that those same people also hate wolves and Native Americans too.

        • Immer Treue says:

          I don’t think Native Americans are very big on Columbus day either.

          • JEFF E says:

            It’s estimated that the island of Hispaniola had a population of ~300,000 indigenous inhabitants when it was “discovered” by Columbus.

            50 years later they were extinct.

          • Salle says:

            Nope. They have an “anti-Columbus day”… in recognition of the centuries long plight he inflicted upon them.

          • Salle says:

            “Prosecutorial discretion is always an important tool for law enforcement. “

            …and a double standard here, maybe?

      • Doryfun says:

        Haven’t read the Ambrose book, but have read “In the Spirit of Crazy Horse” – The Story of Leonard Peltier and the FBI’s war on the American Indian Movement, by Peter Matthiessen. 1980, 83, 91. This book was banned for 8 years (huge publishing legal battle) before being allowed to reach the light. It gives an account of the real cost of the American Dream. (mockery of justice/ squandered earth).

        An interesting quote in the front of the book:

        “We did no task you white men to come here. The Great Spirit gave us this country as home. You had yours. We did not interfere with you. The Great Spirit gave us plenty of land to live on, and buffalo, deer, antelope and other game. But you have come here; you are taking my land from me; you are killing off out game, so it is hard for us to live. Now, you tell us to work for a living, but the Great Spirit did not make us to work, but to live by hunting. You white men can work if you want to. We do not interfere with you, and again you say, why do you not become civilized? We do not want your civilization! We would live as our fathers did, and their fathers before them.” – Crazy Horse (Lakota)

        Often people in today’s world think that it was too bad what happened to the Indians hundreds of years ago. They forget that the new smallpox is legal briefs. We still have treaty obligations with these folks. Our ancestors (dominionists) may not have acted honorably with ancestral Indian folks, but that doesn’t mean we can’t do so in today’s world.

        Two world views about nature. Both cultures sharing the same resources need to have a lot of tolerance for each other. Pretty hard to do for our federal government, when people like Republican Sen. Jim DeMint just yesterday at a CPAK speech basically urged no compromising (“I can guarantee you that coach Tom Coughlin did not tell his Giants to go out on the field and work with those other guys…”) he said. This kind of attitude only promotes more chaos and floundering.

        • Doryfun says:

          Our plight across the board is not a football game, where there is a winner and loser. Is it too much to ask for applying tolerance towards a win-win American way? Finding balance (hunter vs non-hunter) is hard enough in legal battles and mgt schemes for fish and wildlife.

          What does the effectiveness of huge negative add campaigns say about our society?

  15. Mal Adapted says:

    WWP just won a major victory over the BLM: Grazing Must Yield: Court Decision Protects Sage-Grouse Habitat in Idaho’s Owyhee Canyonlands:

    The action challenged BLM’s renewal of grazing permits on allotments in the BLM’s Owyhee and Bruneau Field Offices. Despite admissions that key habitats for sage-grouse were being degraded by livestock on the allotments, BLM persisted in renewing grazing permits at the same levels of use and loosening restrictions on permit holders. This violated BLM’s land use plans that require the agency to prioritize sensitive species, and the court held, “To the extend livestock and sage grouse are in conflict, it is grazing that must yield.” The ruling has sweeping implications for the management of hundreds of similar grazing decisions under review.

    Congratulations to WWP!

    • Ralph Maughan says:

      We did, and we shouldn’t forget Advocates for the West, who were our attorneys.

      Many thanks to attorneys Todd Tucci and Kristin Ruether. Our Ken Cole and Katie Fite did huge amounts of field work and pouring over data.

      • WM says:


        Congratulations to all involved. Not to take anything away from what I am sure was a well prepared factual case with excellent legal work leading to victory, one still has to wonder how BLM keeps serving up home run pitch after home run pitch for WWP on these grazing permit cases with severely degraded habitat and at risk species in so many places. After connecting the dots a few times one would think BLM leaderhip would figure out federal judges are not going to fold on the mismatch between what the law requires and what BLM is doing. And, ultimately that would filter down to the policy changes, that give their staff direction to prepare proper land use plans then actually follow them. Geez.

        Absolutely amazing.

    • Mike says:

      Incredible news. Thanks WWWP.

  16. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Idaho hunter shoots former Imnaha Pack wolf
    “An Idaho hunter who apparently didn’t realize his wolf tag was no longer valid shot and killed a collared male wolf from northeast Oregon’s Imnaha Pack”

    • Ralph Maughan says:

      Wolf OR (9), born in Oregon, migrated to Idaho, but was illegally shot near Emmett.

    • wiliam huard says:

      So let me ask some of the hunters on this blog-
      How hard is it to look on the tag- is there an expiration date on the tag? Wouldn’t that be one of the first things you would do as a “resonsible hunter” and make sure your tag wasn’t expired? It really doesn’t make a difference because this hunter was not cited for anything……Why even bother issuing tags- just have a free for all.

      • Paul says:

        In 14 years of public safety we have always been told that ignorance of the law is never a justifiable excuse. Apparently in Idaho when it comes to wolves it is. A poacher gets a warning? Why does this not surprise me. I would bet that in reality that this guy knew damn well what he was doing, and knew that IDFG wouldn’t do a thing about it. And of course you have to have the prerequsisit “grinning idiot” photo with the dead wolf.

        And to think we still have at least another month and a half of unfettered wolf killing in Idaho to look forward to. Then comes the Wildlife Services gunships to finish the job. And after all of this elk numbers will still be “down” and they just will not be able to figure out why. Then of course the answer will be to kill more wolves to get to that magic number of 151. Thanks Obama!

        • Mike says:

          ++In 14 years of public safety we have always been told that ignorance of the law is never a justifiable excuse. ++

          Ignorance of the law is okay as long as you be killin’ stuff, and are a good Christian.

      • IDhiker says:

        The tags are for collecting money…

    • Mike says:

      So his hunting license was revoked and he received a fine, right?

      • wiliam huard says:

        No- they shook his hand and gave him a free ticket to the next IDFG sponsored “jamboree”, or “hunter appreciation” event

        • Paul says:

          I seem to remember that on the statistics Mr. Gamblin posted about wolf incidents, the vast majority were “warnings.” Again if law enforcement taught me anything it was ignorance of the law is not an excuse. Just once, I would live to see a wolf poacher prosecuted to the full extent of the law rather than everything always being a “misunderstanding” or some other lame excuse. Of course I do not expect that to happen with in any of these NRM states.

          • Mike says:

            It’s not going to happen, especially if the hunter is white and local.

          • Immer Treue says:


            Since a certain blogger has been brought up elsewhere, it is fitting that another exchange I had with said person be brought up here. The thread had something to do with poaching in Wyoming, to which the said poster wrote that Wyoming has so many problems with drunk drivers, that they should not/ could not waste time chasing poachers. (This says something about ethics of said person).

            I’ve often heard that we make too many laws, and we should just enforce the ones we have. OK, if Wyoming has a drunk driving problem, go Scandinavian on them. Loosing your car( not the threat of) and driving privileges might solve the DWI problem pretty darn quick. Poach, loose your weapons and hunting privileges(not the threat of)might solve illegal killing of wildlife pretty darn quick. But then one will have the NRA and Safari Club… postulating the conspiracy to take “our” guns away…

          • Paul says:


            I agree 100%. We have a huge drunk driving problem in Wisconsin. In fact we are the only state that a first offense drunk driving is considered a “traffic offense” just like a speeding ticket. It is not a felony until your 5th offense (4th if you have kids in the car). Last week when I was researching the WI wolf hunting bill and the groups that were supporting it I came across this interesting list:


            Click on the “interests” tabs by each group to see what they are lobbying for. The most interesting thing for me was looking at what bills were supported or opposed by the Wisconsin chapter of SCI. The opposed a bill that would make animal mistreatment a felony. That tells me all that I need to know about that group. I still don’t know why the Wisconsin State Cranberry Growers Association is supporting the wolf killing bill. Wolves and cranberries that is an association that I readily make!?!?

          • Immer Treue says:



            This can’t be the reason, can it?

          • Paul says:

            It may be. Good one 🙂

          • Immer Treue says:


            As recent as I could find, but in Wisconsin, for 2010 655 Wisconsin crop owners enrolled in program for deer damage abatement to the tune of $ 1,201,192. The 655 claimants is down from the 765 in 2009. Is there a chance wolves had something to do wit this?

      • WM says:

        While the article does not give all the facts, it looks like the game warden did a little research on why the guy did not have a 2012 wolf tag. First, to be legally hunting coyotes (which he apparently was) he would have required a 2012 ID hunting license. It may well have been he purchased the license, but not the tag (because the license clerk advised him his 2011 one was good for the remainder of the season which continuously covers the 2011 to early 2012 period – which is what the article states). Since a resident wolf tag is only $11.50, it would make sense the guy would have purchased one had he been given proper advise by the state’s representative, the private license vendor. Never having seen a wolf tag, I don’t know whether it has an expiration date on the face.

        It would be an easy mistake for a hunter to make given the vendor admitted advice. And maybe in this instance, by purchasing the 2012 tag after the fact, he would be permitted to keep the pelt.

        On the other hand, if he had not purchased a 2012 license that would be an entirely different enforcment story, and I would bet he should have been cited for hunting without a license AND tag, as well as killing the big game animal, itself. Whatdayawanna bet the game warden covered all that ground?

        Maybe Mark Gamblin can tell us more.

        • Mike says:

          ++It would be an easy mistake for a hunter to make given the vendor admitted advice. And maybe in this instance, by purchasing the 2012 tag after the fact, he would be permitted to keep the pelt.++

          There’s no excuse for not knowing the law. It is up to the hunter, not the tag vender to be clear on this.

          • WM says:


            ++There’s no excuse for not knowing the law.++

            We still do not know the facts of this instance, but it is not like there is alot of operating history with the wolf hunting regulations in ID. They were hastily put together, it would seem, for the early fall hunt following the initial litigation over the Congressional rider (the hunt is legal).

            And then there is that two tags per hunter per calender year provision for 2011-12, which carries over to one continuous season stradling two years Aug 30 – Dec 31, 2011 and then continuing thru March 2012. That gives the opportunity (though it appears not fulfilled by anyone thus far) to get four wolves in a seven month period in select game management units in the state. Has anyone even gotten two in 2011?

            It seems like it would be easy for the vendor to make an honest mistake, and the purchaser to justifiably rely on the representation.

            What is more amazing to me, Mike, is that you personally have a bug up your butt over a small technicality, which has a simple explanation/cure.

            And, this Imnaha pack disperser is from a pack that has to its credit something like 20 confirmed and an additional 10-11 probable livestock kills to its credit in OR. It was also seen/shot next to a feedlot and winter calving area. So, this wolf might not have been long for the world anyway, and was maybe shot before somebody had to investigate one or multiple depredation events and pay out money from a compensation fund, and then send some government paid shooter out to deal with the matter.

            Conjecture? Yes, but still worth noting.

          • wiliam huard says:

            So now I understand WM-

            The wolf haters in State of Idaho put together these regulations hastily, so the illiterate hillbilly hunter isn’t to blame. Plus- It’s OK to poach this wolf because he had it coming to him anyway? After all- he was at a feed lot and calving area- so we all know his intentions…. You’re up to almost 40 depredations on this pack- WITH NO PROOF WHATSOEVER….

            Typical WM- always the apologist. Are you on medication?

          • Mike says:

            WM –

            I’m not surprised that you’re apologizing for this. You’d apologize for a hunter if he was walking out your door with your TV.

          • wiliam huard says:


            It seems like WM would be a good fit to push propaganda for the Idaho Cattlemens Assoc or perhaps the Idaho Chapter of Sportsmen for Sportsmen. He’s got most of the qualities they are looking for…..This bizarre hatred for “animal rights” organizations like HSUS, a propensity to make excuses for any and all unethical hunter/rancher behavior, not to mention this sick underlying “difficulty at containing his excitement” as the wolf casualties add up……

          • WM says:


            ++You’re up to almost 40 depredations on this pack- WITH NO PROOF WHATSOEVER….

            Typical WM- always the apologist. Are you on medication?++

            I know rational thought is a foreign concept to you, and to Mike and a few others here, but I thought I would try to provide an explanation anyway for both wolf and (illegal?) hunter.

            As for the stats on the Imnaha pack, which are under a court stay from further lethal control in OR, here are the offical stats from ORFW.


            Note the official OR news release uses the lower one of “confirmed” – that would be 19 confirmed in mid-December, then there was another, and yet another in January. Then there are the “probable” which are in addition to the confirmed (10 was the number used in several sources). If you will recall Carter Neimeyer was on the panel that did the review that came up with that stat, I believe. Since then there is the mule death (which is an additional probable) that I did not even mention.

            Here is the detailed report:

            While you work on your reasoning skilles, william, learn to count, as well. I did not say “40” as you state. And, indeed, the proof is there.

            As for HSUS, they are largely responsible, with their protracted litigation and delays, for the reactionary response in the Western Great Lakes, as WI, MI and MN (to some degree) rush to control the numbers of wolves they were promised they could do five or more years ago, and ten in the case of MN.

            I see the lingo is catching on. “Apologist,” is that supposed to be something like racist in the wolf advocacy world? I see a couple of you guys using that in response whenever a reasoned position on a topic is stated. Rather than counter with a reasoned rebuttal of your own, you just say “apologist.” How convenient.

            As for the numbers of wolves being taken, for whatever reason, that was always part of the management scenario. What is it now, about 6 or 7 states now with significant control actions including active/contemplated hunting season to control numbers of wolves. Guess they are all nutzo.

          • Mike says:

            William –

            I think you’re right. WM just doesn’t like animals or public land, it seems.

        • Immer Treue says:

          “Maybe Mark Gamblin can tell us more.”

          Mark has been rather inconspicuous as of late. In respect to Mark, with some of the crapola that has come up as of late, I would think he is caught between a rock and a really hard place. Yes, I would like to hear his take on this incident.

        • Jeff N. says:

          WM likes to call out people when he feels they are talking “outside their area of expertise” but what is abundantly clear is that WM is an expert apologist and water carrier for the anti-wolf crowd.

          Let’s be clear here – Per WM poacher gets a pass because he is a confused idiot. Dead wolf got what it deserved because it was a member of Imnaha pack.

          • Mike says:

            That about sums it up.

          • WM says:

            Jeff N.

            So, which parts of my comments above are not factual (per ORFW, Carter’s panel, the IDFG game warden as stated in the local paper) on history of Imnaha pack depredation incidents, and the wolf killing incident? Which of my comments are not supported by the weight of evidence of any publised source you can find about the Imnaha pack, this particular wolf or the hunter who appears to have had a license but not the appropriate tag, as advised by a state license vendor?

            Let’s have an honest dialog. And, bythe way, I carry water for neither wolf advocates nor the cattle lobby. I am one of those guys in the middle that think both of your polar viewpoints have created the problems being played out. The sad thing is some wolf advocates have created the hole they are now in (reference to aggressive state control of wolf numbers). Sadly, what they haven’t figured out is the first thing you do (when in a hole) is to stop digging.

          • wiliam huard says:

            Well lookee here- we got us one of those wolf luvin liberal animal rights do-gooders- Zeke- ya better get the shotgun- I hear those socialist animal lovers can be pretty unpredictable- downright unamerica I tell you. Tellin us we can’t have our prairie dog hunt…..Don’t you know Marge made some homemade varmint pie- with ground up porcupine quill sprinkled on the top. They don’t know nothin those tree huggers

          • wiliam huard says:

            According to WM- let’s take Wisconsin for example…..If weasel boy Suder and the Wisc legislators continue to force this extreme proposal- WM is saying thay HSUS and other animal rights groups should just suck it up and let these idiots do what they please- because if they resist it will be worse later? That makes no sense.

          • Mike says:

            WM –

            You like to place blame on the enviro’s. But the problem is the enviro’s didn’t wipe out the wolf in the lower 48 and force it onto the list. Hunters and ranchers did. And they’re doing it again with these extreme “management” (come on folks, it’s okay to call it what it is — killing plans).

          • WM says:


            I don’t know that reaching back into history to say ad nauseum that we did stupid things to irradicate wolves (grizzlies) and even ungulates helps with what is going on today. Wolf advocates have, in my opinion pushed too hard in sensitive political environments, where sentiments seem to be changing (or were pent up) during this protracted litigation leading to getting wolves delisted. That is all I am saying.

            As for what is going on in WI right now, I am with you guys. I think the backlash is too harsh there. Maybe it will be too much and change the momentum once again, such that the pendelum swings back the other way.

            Jeff N.,

            I did forget to mention an important thing, which you apparently also forgot. This Imnaha wolf was a legal wolf for any ID hunter to take. So, if wasn’t this guy with the wrong tag, it would likely have been someone else, given where he was.

            And what do you think the chances are that wolf would have started having a hankering for a little beef or sheep? He was no doubt food conditioned to them in OR a year and a half ago? Keep thinking easy meals with low risk of harm to themselves and least caloric expenditure are the ones they are, genetically programmed, most likely to go after.

          • wiliam huard says:

            WM blames the HSUS for the “reactionary response”. It has nothing to do with the HSUS. It has everything to do with this extreme conservative agenda….. Conservatives spend 8 years at a time ruining this country and then spend the rest of the time blaming the people trying to clean up the mess, as they bash wolves, minorities, women, working people, unions, gays, the FEDS, etc. Wolves are just a symptom of a larger problem- angry hateful people who think they know better than the rest of us how we should live our lives.

          • Savebears says:

            Yup.. the lib’s that have been in office for the last 4 years have done a hell of a job! The current president appointed Salazar, there was a real winner! The current president has declared war on religion, another feather in his cap! He is doing a great job William!

          • wiliam huard says:

            Salazar has been a disaster. At least Obama tries to solve problems- After all- he seems to be the only grownup in the room. How do you reason with people that would create a financial disaster by shutting down the government because you hate planned parenthood?
            He hasn’t declared war on religion SaveBears- you been watchin a little too much Fox news?

          • Paul says:


            How has Obama declared war on religion? You are free to go to any church, mosque, synagogue, or whatever your religious preference is. Now, I am not a fan of Obama, and I agree that Cowboy Ken was a horrible choice for Interior Secretary, but come on, declared war on religion? If you are referring to the contraception thing, the nerve that women should be able to control their own destiny! I just wish that the Catholic church was as outraged about that whole child molestation thing as they are about the contraception thing.

          • Savebears says:


            I have never once watched a Fox News Broadcast..I did watch Fox the other night when American Idol was on. Somehow I think that is abit different than you where implying.

          • Immer Treue says:

            It’s amazing that so much focus has been put on women and contraceptives. It truly is a “man” oriented world, even in the good old US of A. All the onus is thrust(pun intended) upon women. Maybe men should keep their little brain from thinking for them.

    • Mike says:

      Okay, just read the article. Why wasn’t the wolf taken from this hunter if his tag was expired?

      And let’s be honest here, it’s these guys out there hunting predators that seem to cause most of the problems. This incessant mentality to shoot these animals amazes me. What it all comes down to is expressing control over an object because they have no control over their own lives. It’s a release, an ego-boosting mechanism that is long outdated.

    • wiliam huard says:

      Classic comments- Toothless Bruce Hemming(complete with gun in hand)incorrectly spells “censored” and WTT Chandie (guest appearance from the trailer park)with her usual “conspiracy theories”

    • Jeff N. says:


      Per your posts regarding the poaching of OR-9, you’ve provided only “conjecture” –

      “While the article does not give all the facts”

      “And, this Imnaha pack disperser is from a pack that has to its credit something like 20 confirmed and an additional 10-11 probable livestock kills to its credit in OR. It was also seen/shot next to a feedlot and winter calving area. So, this wolf might not have been long for the world anyway, and was maybe shot before somebody had to investigate one or multiple depredation events and pay out money from a compensation fund, and then send some government paid shooter out to deal with the matter.

      Conjecture? Yes, but still worth noting.”

      “We still do not know the facts of this instance,”

      All of the quotes are attributed to you, and you want to have have a factual discussion and you provide only “conjecture.”

      This is pure conjecture, from you – “I did forget to mention an important thing, which you apparently also forgot. This Imnaha wolf was a legal wolf for any ID hunter to take. So, if wasn’t this guy with the wrong tag, it would likely have been someone else, given where he was.

      And what do you think the chances are that wolf would have started having a hankering for a little beef or sheep? He was no doubt food conditioned to them in OR a year and a half ago?”

      I guess the only fact is that a hunter killed a wolf w/o a valid tag, making him a poacher.

      • wiliam huard says:

        Jeff N-

        The fact that this airhead poacher didn’t have a tag means nothing to IDFG. They even let the moron keep the pelt. The only good wolf is a dead wolf in Idaho. These people are mindless hillbillies.

        • Jeff N. says:

          Another thing I’d like to add is the bullshit premise that “poachers aren’t hunters” doesn’t hold up… all. This guy is obviously a hunter, by fact…not conjecture…that he bought a license, but then by his own ignorance, whether willful or not, poached a wolf.

          • Mike says:

            There’s “magical thinking” by many of the anti-predator guys on this blog that anyone who poaches is no longer a hunter–even if they own a hunting license.

            It’s part of the under-rug-sweeping that is inherent in the hunting comunity. Very few folks take responsibility and condemn such actions. It’s like a family member that enables someone’s drug use or alcoholism. We all know that person, I’m sure.

        • wiliam huard says:

          WM posts the article and in the fourth sentence it clearly says that the IDFG said the “WOLF WAS KILLED ILLEGALLY”…
          He was issued a warning because he reported it immediately and because IDFG hates wolves in Idaho……What don’t you get?
          The third comment down says it all- the guy had the privledge to see the wolf alive and well- compared to now- being held up by this fat stupid ignoramous…..

          • Mark Gamblin (IDFG) says:

            Paul –
            Reminder: you referred above (in this thread) to citation and warning statistics for Idaho wolf related violations. Wolf poaching will continue to be cited and prosecuted.

          • WM says:


            ++we had one of our local nuts sitting on a portable stool on the sidewalk across the street from a middle school.++

            Just wondering, how would you have handled it (assuming you know all the facts and applicable law)?

        • Mark Gamblin (IDFG) says:

          William, Jeff N., Mike ….
          The relevant elements of this wildlife violation are: The wolf was killed in an open hunt, by a licensed Idaho hunter with an expired wolf tag. The hunter was informed by the license vendor that the tag was valid until the end of the 2011-2012 wolf hunting season. That was incorrect information. The investigating Idaho Conservation Officer determined that the hunter did not knowingly or willingly harvest/kill/take the wolf illegally and chose to issue a written warning rather than a citation. The article does not say or imply that the hunter was allowed to keep the pelt or other parts of the wolf carcass. I haven’t talked to IDFG officers involved in this case, but absent extenuating circumstances, the wolf carcass was almost certainly seized by the investigating officer because the hunter could not legally possess the pelt or other parts of the carcass. Had the hunter purchased a 2012 wolf tag, this wolf harvest/kill/take would be no different than any other legal wolf kill this hunting season.

          • Jeff N. says:

            Mark Gamblin says – ” Had the hunter purchased a 2012 wolf tag, this wolf harvest/kill/take would be no different than any other legal wolf kill this hunting season.”

            Now I ask you Mark, based on this hunters ignorance, what would the penalty have been if he had poached an elk w/o a valid license? Would he have gotten a pass because the vendor gave him bad info?

          • wiliam huard says:

            Mark’s already gone to buy fatboy a cold one for doing such good work.

          • Mark Gamblin (IDFG) says:

            Jeff N –
            The officer, the IDFG has no role in determining what penalty or if a penalty is merited by the hunters action(s). The officers responsibility is to determine if a violation has occured, and if so, what is the appropriate enforcement response. The latter decision is the officer descretion WM referred to above. Under similar circumstances, officers choose the same enforcment alternative, a written warning – regardless of the species. There is much more being made of this technical violation than merits the emotional energy that has been invested in it. The violation did not result in an undesired outcome for wolf management objectives, nor did it necessaryily reduce harvest/kill/take opportunities for other wolf hunters. It was simply an unintentional tagging violation, one among many each hunting season – some intentional, some not.

          • wiliam huard says:

            Typical response Mark. Wolves are just numbers on a hitlist. It’s really too bad you people don’t have the “capacity” or “wherewithall” to realize each wolf has their own value. To you- wolves are just a hunting opportunity. I feel sorry for you you are so pathetic

          • Paul says:

            It’s just one closer to the plunge to 151. Does anyone really think that any wolf poacher will ever face a citation or prosecution in any of these states? “Oh, I’m sorry officer, I didn’t know” will be the new catchphrase followed by a wink and a nod. It’s just like the old “it was coming right for me” one that many predator poachers use. It is no different than cops falling for that lame excuse when someone tries to get out of a speeding ticket, “I didn’t know.” Believe me I saw it every day.

          • Mark Gamblin (IDFG) says:

            Sorry, first post was out of place.

            Paul –
            Reminder: you referred above (in this thread) to citation and warning statistics for Idaho wolf related violations. Wolf poaching will continue to be cited and prosecuted.

            • Ken Cole says:

              Except when it isn’t. Like when the Australians weren’t cited and like when the guy who shot the wolf near Emmett with an expired tag wasn’t.

          • Paul says:


            But that was when wolves were under federal control. How many citations since Idaho took over “management?” I never put much stock in warnings because in my experience they rarely work.

          • Paul says:

            I’m sorry Mark, but you own governor made it very clear in the past that Idaho will not investigate illegal wolf killings. What has changed since then? You still have the same wolf hating governor and his cronies.

          • Mark Gamblin (IDFG) says:

            Paul –
            The wolf related wildlife violations with citations or written warnings you refer to occured during periods of federal AND state management authority. No need to apologize. Getting it wrong occasionally is understandable. In your case, Governor Otter has not, to my knowledge, made any statement to the effect that Idaho wildlife laws would not or should not be enforced. That seems to be a convenient construct by those who seem to want Idaho and the other NRMR states to be perceived as determined to undermine the rule of law, as it applies to wolf management regulations – federal AND state. You might be reassured to know/remember that Governor Otter has emphasized that Idaho, like every other state, is a member of a nation of laws – which Idaho will honor and enforce.

          • Mark Gamblin (IDFG) says:

            Ken –
            “Except when it isn’t. Like when the Australians weren’t cited and like when the guy who shot the wolf near Emmett with an expired tag wasn’t.”

            I assume you refer to the Tasmanian citizens who were in fact cited and found guilty of a variety of wildlife related violations – including shooting a wolf illegally. Recall that the controversy on this blog was not that they were cited and found guilty for illegally killing a wolf, but that the officers demonstrated civility towards the defendants after their court sentencing.
            The latest incident, shooting a wolf without a valid wolf tag was determined to be unintentional, verified by by the investigating offcer to have been based on erroneous information given the hunter by the license vendor. In this case, the investigating officer determined that the hunter acted in good faith, believing that he was hunting with a valid wolf tag.
            Both examples of wolf related hunting regulation violations were thoroughly investigated with appropriate enforcement action.

            • Ken Cole says:

              My mistake about the Tasmanian poachers. I thought that they weren’t punished for the wolf incident but I see that they were. However, the “unintentional” taking of a wolf on an expired tag isn’t the first incident where Idaho Department of Fish and Game has failed to act when a wolf was concerned. I remember at least one incident when someone in eastern Idaho hunted down a wolf after he claimed it looked funny at his horses. The wolf wasn’t even nearby when he shot it yet Idaho Department of Fish and Game didn’t do anything.

              How many wolf poaching incidents have been prosecuted since Idaho Department of Fish and Game took over management? I do know of an incident where someone was prosecuted for illegal snaring somewhere around Riggins but it was never publicized. Have there been others?

              It seems that the Emmett incident should have been prosecuted to me. It is the responsibility of the hunter or fisherman to know the regulations and just because someone selling a tag doesn’t know the rules doesn’t mean that the hunter should take their word for it. They are ultimately responsible.

              I don’t look to whoever sells me a fishing license to know the fishing regulations, especially if and when I buy it at someplace like Howdy’s in Cascade.

          • Paul says:


            I understand that you work for Otter and his underlings, but come on. Don’t you remember this:


            This kind of “I’m taking my ball and going home” crap that Otter pushed sure doesn’t sound like he was very interested in being part of that “nation of laws.” When your own lawmakers propose laws that would allow for “live bait” such as dogs to kill wolves it shows the true agenda at play here.

          • wiliam huard says:


            Mr Gamblin has a job to do- that job is to kill wolves to satisfy the political objectives of the Otter administration….period.
            We all have had to endure this “assault” on this animal with one series of legislative actions after another from these Idaho legislators. My personal favorite was the one introduced by Phil Hart that would have instructed wildlife and enforcement related bodies to NOT investigate wolf poaching…..This is what we have had to deal with. Loons.
            Introducing “facts” do not matter to these people.

          • Immer Treue says:


            +++The latest incident, shooting a wolf without a valid wolf tag was determined to be unintentional, verified by by the investigating offcer to have been based on erroneous information given the hunter by the license vendor.+++

            Is their not literature provided to the hunter, as there is in MN, to which the hunter is actually supposed to read and understand before pulling a trigger?

            Okay, calmly written with no hyperbole, it’s just one wolf, and this does not put the Idaho wolf population in jeopardy. I’m just having trouble understanding how someone, who in reality broke the law, killing something that was not legal, in his case to kill, receives only a warning. As far as the pelt, it would be interesting to know where it goes.

          • Paul says:


            This is no BS. A couple of years ago we had one of our local nuts sitting on a portable stool on the sidewalk across the street from a middle school. He had a rifle case with him and inside the case was an Ak-47. We got several call from concerned citizens about this. The Lt. who responded just warned him about sitting there with an assault rifle in a case, across from a middle school. No follow up, no nothing. This is “officer discretion” in action. I wonder what will be said when this nut decides to actually take the rifle out and start shooting?

          • Mark Gamblin (IDFG) says:

            Paul, William –
            One of my purposes on this blog is to help the public (that includes you) to understand Idaho (specifically IDFG and Idaho Fish and Game Commission) wildlife related policies and programs, as well as wildlife biology and management principles.
            Here, you each provide a good example of a need for help understanding an important wildlife management issue. My last post included the brief period of Idaho’s withdrawal from active participation in wolf management. Here is where you need help understanding this issue. Governor Otter’s order that the state of Idaho said nothing about not honoring or enforcing federal or state law. In fact, there was specific clarification that state law enforcement personnel would thoroughly document apparent violations of federal wolf related laws and pass those observations on to appropriate authorities. Any remaining, applicable state laws and regulations. There is a distict difference between disengaging in active managment activities and ….. refusing to recognize, honor and enforce laws of the land.

          • Mark Gamblin (IDFG) says:

            Immer –
            Thanks for your rational query.
            Yes, we all have the primary responsibility of knowing and understanding the laws, rules/regulations we live under in our democratic republic. Our legal system also gives broad descretion to law enforcement authorities to determine when a violation of those laws is committed without intent due to ignorance of the law that a reasonable person would conlude is understandable and does not merit prosecution. This applies to a variety of infractions and misdemeanors that do not rise to a level of threat to our society that requires full review and prosecution by the judiciary system. This case is one which does not rise to that level of significance. A law enforecment officer may, with his/her descretion determine that a written, or sometimes verbal, warning best meets the intent of the particular law or regulation, without formally citing the violator with a violation of the law. Traffic violations, parking meter violations, disturbing the peace violations are examples in the same category as this wolf tagging violation. If there is a reasonable explanation for the violation, with the investigating officer found there was, then a written warning is a more appropriate enforcement response than a formal citation.
            I respectfully suggest that this …. tempest in a teapot …. seems to be more about the protestants outrage that the wolf was harvested/killed/taken at all, with a corresponding desire that justice – in their eyes – for the death of this wolf – be meeted to the hunter. The tepid (at best) reasoning, rationale that has been offered for WHY the hunter deserves to be cited and prosecuted supports this suspicion.

          • Mark Gamblin (IDFG) says:

            Immer –
            I will check of the disposition of the wolf carcass.

          • Paul says:


            I don’t know about you, but it sure sounded to me like Otter was very clear in his intention to order that wolf poaching not be investigated by your agency. There are plenty of quotes from him in the media to back that up. He has gone on record many times regarding his feelings towards wolves. It’s funny that when a wolf advocate speaks out against wolves being killed they are labeled as being emotional or irrational. But when wolf hating politicians portray the ultimate emotion, hatred, they are being “responsible,” and “rational.”

            So now that your state has killed (legally) almost 300 wolves thus far, how close are you to 151 or 152, or whatever your “magic” number is? I would assume with at least another month and a half to go (so far), and the gunships taking to the air soon far more will be killed. That is also not taking into account all of the SSS activity. Of course then there will be a slight increase with the newborn pups of the survivors so more killing will need to be done. When will enough be enough? Or will the no quota killing go on year after year? What happens if the numbers get near 150? Will the hunting/trapping seasons be cancelled or will Idaho take their chances that the Feds will not re-list and let the killing go on until wolves are eradicated again? I know that is what many Idaho politicians want based again on their statements in the media. There doesn’t seem to be much of a long term plan in place other than kill, kill, kill until you get near 150, then reevaluate.

          • Mark Gamblin (IDFG) says:

            Ken –
            “I remember at least one incident when someone in eastern Idaho hunted down a wolf after he claimed it looked funny at his horses. The wolf wasn’t even nearby when he shot it yet Idaho Department of Fish and Game didn’t do anything.”
            To keep us on track, with the facts: The incident in east Idaho was investigated by IDFG Conservation Officers and a citation was issued. Based on the elements of the case, the county prosecutor made a decision to not pursue charges.

          • JEFF E says:

            Why does IFANG not attempt to properly educate vendors, who are de facto representatives when dispensing licences and tags?

      • WM says:


        The hunter timely reported the taking of the wolf as required by ID game regulation for harvesting a wolf. That fact alone hardly seems to suggest the guy was intentionally violating the law, making him a “poacher.” And, he was issued a warning.

        Prosecutorial discretion is always an important tool for law enforcement. This was not some eggregious violation of the law. Except for the tag glitch, this was a legal taking of the wolf, and I bet a judge would throw the case out, so there would be no conviction/fine anyway – so not a poacher in the eyes of the law.

        Latest news (KCTS is the PBS TV station in Seattle, and they do excellent reporting):

        • Mike says:

          WM –

          If he was latino or Native American, would this be different?

          • WM says:


            If anyone was otherwise a legal resident/hunter with proper license and tag and intent to comply with applicable law, no.

          • wiliam huard says:

            But this dimwit didn’t have a tag.
            “Mike Keckler, a spokesman with ID fish and game, said the hunter killed the wolf illegally.”
            This doesn’t have to be be this hard. We can work on our names nest week. The guy looks like he still lives in his parents basement. He’s a poacher. Poaching a wolf will get him free drinks at the local watering hole.
            WM-are you sure your not sick or something?

          • WM says:


            ++WM-are you sure your not sick or something?++

            Thanks for asking. Come to think of it, I do get a bit of dyspepsia and fatigue when reading some of the absurd rants on this forum, but I usually recover.

            And if your inquiry was directed to my comment about latinos or Native Americans and my response to how any violator should be treated, you simply do not know my values.

            I don’t care about skin color or cultural differences, except that whoever it is in the US and living in individual states need to follow the law, like anyone else. First be here legally, and second observe the laws we all have to live by. And in the case of Native Americans whose tribes have sovereign governemntal powers for certain functions under federal law, like reservations which they excuclively govern, including off reservation treaty rights for fish/wildlife, their individual members need to follow the rules. And if those tribal sovereigns do not follow their own agreements with the federal government (treaties) by punishing individual tribal violators in ways which deter future bad conduct they are no better than the violators themselves. If they don’t they are not worthy of respect by anyone. Tribes need to be responsible governments. Some are and some are not.

          • wiliam huard says:

            I didn’t ask you anything about latinos or any other ethnic group. I’m just trying to get you to admit that the latest wolf killer in Idaho poached the wolf…..He killed the wolf illegally and then he tried to blame the clerk…..It’s very simple- like most hunting issues when hunters are wrong they can’t even admit it without turning it into an attack on hunting rights.

          • Salle says:


            I think where I find your statements on this issue troubling is the part where you expect that NAs, simply by fiat of being recognized by the US and maintain governing structures that were designed by and must meet with US approval to be recognized, have to adhere to a a penal code that they may not observe regardless of your level of comfort with it, or any non-Indian for that matter. It also doesn’t matter how much time you’ve spent knowing Indians, you still may not get it. Lots of white folks live among other ethnic groups, doesn’t automatically mean that they understand them. There are elements of culture that many will not share with outsiders no matter what, in any culture.

            Just because they didn’t lock the guy(s) up for some length of time doesn’t mean there isn’t some form of discipline that is not evident to those outside the culture.

            …I’m just sayin’. Not making accusations, pointing fingers.

          • WM says:


            What I am referring to is tribal member game violations turned over to tribal courts for adjudication. Some courts get it, and others do not. Recall they also have their own law enforcement officers, who use their own discretion on certain matters, that means some things never get cited at all (and some of you think this ID 2012 wolf kill on a 2011 tag is injustice).
            The Yakamas, for example, several years were audited by an Indian (intertribal) entity charged with such reviews (It may have beenthe Boulder, CO based Native American Rights Fund, but I simply do not remember). So it is Indians (and their lawyers/judges) evaluating their own, and focused on how tribes mete out justice. The YAKAMA audit came up short, very short, on things like keeping good records, consistency of decisions, and a bunch of other objective judicial measures. It was, acccording to the audit agency, one of the worst they had seen, and if I recall correctly set out specific criteria for improvement. I have not followed it since, and only seen the audit report once. It is no longer avialable on line, that I could find (Ain’t that a hoot in itself!). Some tribes do stuff in secret, and there is no FOIA request that a non-Indian can make for transparancy. And, I don’t even think a tribal member can get some of the governance information, that is how screwed up some tribal governments are, and why some make really bad business and governmental decisions.
            As for the cultural difference, I get it. Doesn’t mean I have to agree with it.
            Hypothetical: Two fishermen are standing on a bank fishing, and state law applies to one who is non-Indian. Tribal law applies to the other, and are set forth in tribal regulations, including recommended fines/penalties for violations. Each fisher illegally catches the same amount of fish, say double the amount, their respective legal limit allows. They get caught at the same time by an enforcement official with jurisdiction over each. Who do you suppose has the greater likelihood of being cited, prosecuted in court and sentenced/fined under identical analogous written laws/regulations? Salle, that is where the disconnect is. Remember the tribe has an agreement with the state where their reservation is regarding fish/game management. Why do they sometimes not follow it? Because they can get away with it, and the political will is not there to make it a front burner issue. That is one reason for the tension on game/fish issues in parts of Indian Country.

            State wildlife agency personnel gripe about it all the time.

  17. Peter Kiermeir says:

    “A necropsy on an endangered Mexican gray wolf that died in December shows the animal was shot to death.”

  18. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Predator policy divide: Ravalli County residents urge shooting wolves, heeding science
    Read more:
    “……told the board that she has documents from Idaho Fish and Game showing that four out of five wolves carry parasites that can kill people, and that all wolves should be “shot on sight.”

    • Ralph Maughan says:

      Thanks Peter,

      I imagine it is beginning to strain the credulity of some local folks when “Julie Schram said wolf pups killed some of her stock. ‘It was 4-month-old puppies killing my stock!’ ” she shouted, or when “Rena Weatherall told the board that she has documents from Idaho Fish and Game showing that four out of five wolves carry parasites that can kill people.”

      I notice in comments to local papers some residents are beginning to charge that local children have been eaten by the wolf, but the events are not being reported.

      • IDhiker says:

        That’s my county for ya! It’s funny, no one has reported these “eaten” children to the Sheriff’s office or FWP. Amazing how these kinds of incidents can be covered up!

        By the way, did you see the black helicopters flying over the other day, and the blue helmets around Darby? Time to stockpile that ammo!!

        • Nancy says:

          🙂 🙂 🙂

        • Mike says:

          I’ve had people in the Bitterroot tell me that the U.N. airlifted grizzlies into the mountains with black helicopters.

          Crazy is contagious. And right now, the rural west has a fever of 103.

      • Maska says:

        Not reported? Oh, give me a break. If a wolf so much as looked twice at a little kid, the news would be all over the newswires before the critter had time to blink.

    • Mike says:

      The language towards the wolf by these people isn’t much different than the laguage towards African Americans before the country pulled its head out of its ass. Just replace “wolf” with the “N” word, and it’s pretty much the same.

      These people are sick.

    • Immer Treue says:

      +++Commissioner Suzy Foss suggested that the board “not let mountain lions get thrown under the bus,” forcing them to take the blame for wolf kills. She suggested that many times, wolves are responsible for the initial killing of an elk and do not leave scat, while a mountain lion will feed on the kill site and leave scat, so that biologists record it as a mountain lion kill.+++


      • Paul says:

        I always knew that she was full of $hit, but I never knew that she was obsessed with it. I have met many good people from Montana and the other NRM states. How do whack jobs like this get power?

  19. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Utah bill seeks to exterminate up to 20,000 coyotes

    • Mike says:

      Stupid hillbilies.

    • Rita K. Sharpe says:

      It just makes me wonder,with all the bounties,derby conteststs,etc. on the coyote,does it really work?Do they reproduce more after the mass killings?Are we creating more of a problem?

      • Nancy says:

        “Do they reproduce more after the mass killings? Are we creating more of a problem?”

        There have been a few studies addressing that fact Rita but it doesn’t seem like anyone gives a damn as long as there’s lots of money available to throw around.

        Treating the symptoms and not the cause, for some reason, has been the approach for decades, only have to look at drug company profits, to realize that sorry fact.

        • Immer Treue says:

          I believe this very fact was brought up in Predatory Bureaucracy, by Robinson (WM I just heard you moan). This constant “war” on coyotes has done nothing more than increase their numbers.

    • wiliam huard says:

      All you needed to hear was Utah- and predator control of coyotes….and you know who is diving this extreme legislation….
      They are even proposing hunting legislation on wolves!!!!!Whenever there is a lone wolf in Utah someone shoots it……How are they going to have a “season” on a nonexistent population of wolves?????
      Someone should really replace Don Peay’s Mr Potato Head that he lost in his couch…..See what happens when you let a lunatic think freely?

  20. CodyCoyote says:

    Here’s what we do for entertainment in Cody Wyoming after football is done for the season . We put a bunch of citizen hunters and commercial big game hunting outfitters in the same room and ‘debate’ who should get preference for any elk licenses.

    P.S. This Cody Elk Study Group was formulated by Wyo Game & Fish in the face of dealing with wolves , brucellosis, unbalanced elk herds, and gentrification not the least. Truth be told, I think G & F wants to displace their own blame in precipitating the problems by laying it at the feet of a citizen task force. Byt he way , all the members of the study group are either ranchers or professional / passionate sport hunters. Even the At Large member(s). No other stakeholder ( read: environmentalist or genuine wildlife conservationists) or anyone representing a nonconsumptive use of wildlife was allowed at the table, although many applied. So to my mind, the study group was D.O.A. before its first meeting last year.

  21. IDhiker says:

    How about this idea to use live animals for baits, and ultra-lights to get those darn wolves? Sponsored by Senator Jeff Siddoway yesterday.

    • Rita K. Sharpe says:

      People better be attentive to their dogs and their where abouts,for if they end up at the pound,from what I ha’ve read,they will be using dogs as the bait. []

      • Rita K. Sharpe says:

        Ralph,Could you please take my post off?I do not think that they meant just dogs,sorry.With all that’s going on here in this country and abroad,if they could just put as much effort as they do in combating wildlife,to more relevant problems.

  22. Mike says:

    Gun nut shoots his daughter’s laptop:

    These re the kind of folks who usually hate wildlife. This is the mentality. Bullies. Gun-worshiping bullies.

  23. Paul says:

    NPR article about Wyoming’s insane wolf plan:

    “My personal opinion is they need to be hunted wherever and whenever they occur because wolves are extremely secretive creatures; they’re extremely intelligent,” says Joe Tilden, a county commissioner in Wyoming and the founder of a hunting advocacy group.”

    From the same blowhard:

    “When you’re hunting a predator, you’re not only out to enjoy the sport, but you’re out to control the number of predators,” he says.

    The NPS has major problems with Wyoming’s “plan” so expect some fireworks if this goes forward.

    • Mike says:

      Crazy. Just absolutely bat-shit crazy.

      Make no mistake; we’re moving towards another extermination effort against the wolf.

      Lack of education rears its ugly head again.

      • wiliam huard says:

        Nice job by Ashe, salazar and others at USFWS for covering all the bases and being thorough…..You would think they would have demanded a corridor between two Parks would be off limits to the locals who you know would be sitting there waiting for wolves to pass through…..Just stunning the incompetence

  24. Daniel Berg says:

    Looks like Idaho Fish & Game busted a 7 man latino poaching ring over in Custer County:

    • Mike says:

      Idaho really seems to give it to minorities and out-of-staters. But if they catch a white guy, it’s a “misunderstanding”.

      • Mark Gamblin (IDFG) says:

        Mike –
        IF you can find a comparable example – i.e. a minority or non-resident who committed a similar un-intentional tagging violation, you might have a point to make.
        Without a relevant and comparable reference your comment above stands out as an inappropriate and predjudicial accusation. Also begs a frequent question implied of your posts: “is your purpose to contribute to civil, constructive dialog …. or to appeal to prurient, irrational invectives irrespective of the facts?”

        • Mike says:

          Mark –

          Are these “un-intentional” (you don’t need the hyphen, BTW) tagging violations you describe the same as unintentional speeding? Or unintentional robbery, or unintentional firearm assault?

          My comments on this blog are simple. I say the things that need to be said. The cruelty towards animals and the ignorance on display by many of these anti-predator folks cannot be reasoned with. Instead, it must be mocked and ridiculed as the backwards human behavior it is.

          • Mark Gamblin (IDFG) says:

            Mike –
            THAT is a good question. Of course, an un-intentional/unintentional tagging violation is on the same level as a parking/traffic/utility bill violation. The investigating officer determined, by the facts, that the violation was unintentional. He was not without a tag – he was without a valid tag, which he had reason to believe was valid. He could not keep the wolf pelt. The wolf was in every other respect a valid, legal harvest/kill/take within the guidelines and intent of the wolf hunting season.
            Your rationalization for sarcasm, disrespect and insults imbedded in your posts helps others to understand your motives, but doesn’t support the comment we discuss here. The Custer County case – multiple, serious violations over a period of years by multiple perpetrators IS an example of a serious crime that requires thorough citation and prosecution, regardless of ethic heritage or residency.

    • Nancy says:

      “David Silcock, regional conservation officer for Salmon Fish and Game, was unavailable for comment on how many animals the hunters may have poached over the past 10 years”

      Is it just me or will articles like this become commonplace when word gets “around” that western states/hunting regulations and soft penalties (if caught) are well worth that poaching trip?

  25. Salle says:

    I know this isn’t directly pertinent to wildlife but is important and you should know about it because it seems that Citizen’s United is already looking ripe for SC attention, thanks to Montana:

    Montana Ban On Corporate Campaigning Heading To U.S. Supreme Court

    Montana’s a little state, wonder if it’ll get squished by the usual suspects.

  26. Salle says:

    This is an interesting and somewhat reliable tool… wonder if there’s one of these for western birds.

    Climate Change Bird Atlas (A Spatial Database of 147 Bird Species of the Eastern USA)

  27. Immer Treue says:

    The Grey

    Just got back from seeing The Grey. Actually not really a bad movie. Some parts a bit on the silly side, other parts border on an art film. The director made some Moby Dick analogy to the movie. Well, as Moby Dick was not just about the whale, The Grey was not just about the wolves. As very few whales have acted as Moby Dick, very few wolves have acted as per the wolves in The Grey. It’s not about the wolves, but about seven men caught, unprepared in a very hostile environment, attempt to survive. Anyone who has experienced a similar environment for an extended period of time (hopefully fully prepared for the conditions) can look upon the film as an epic of survival. The wolves, in my opinion served as a metaphor for the unrelenting danger of that environment. Let your guard down, and the hostile conditions will make you pay with your life. The wolves provided a vehicle to magnify fear, and to continually refocus on the fear, otherwise, just another story of survival in the wild

    That said, the wolves in The Grey are everything we know they are not. Not very believable in size, or behavior. There are a few wolf scenes, where director Joe Carnahan seems to have paid tribute to Ridley Scott’s Alien. Wolves in the wild are pretty stealthy, but not these critters. The movie will probably not sway much public opinion one way or the other about wolves. The discerning movie goer, has the ability to research wolves at their fingertips. Go see it, if for no other reason than to talk to friends who have seen it, and may have questions.

    For what it is worth, stay all the way through the credits.

    • WM says:


      I think adventure novelist Jack London figured out that model many years ago. Survival against odds, intrigue, and the wolf as a vehicle to convey conflict in several scenes. Although, St. Bernard sled dog Buck in the end went off with some female wolf to answer the “Call of the Wild,” wolves were still portrayed as killers of humans. It was entertainment then, poetic license and all. Even moreso with Hollywood, today. They just don’t care about facts as long as the movie revenue stream shows black instead of red ink.

      Sort of reminded me of a Western song (I normally don’t listen to that type of music). There was a line in a ballad (arent’ they mostly ballads?) about some kid’s uncle dying for America in an F-15 fighter aircraft. Well, truth be known no F-15’s have ever been lost in US combat and they have taken out over 104 enemy aircraft. Bet the lyric writer didn’t know that FACT.

      • Immer Treue says:


        ++They just don’t care about facts as long as the movie revenue stream shows black instead of red ink.++

        Agreed. When the movie Troy came upon the scene, some of my friends refused to see it for the license taken with the Iliad (true recount of History??? probably not). I saw the movie and was entertained, even though I knew it must be viewed with a grain of salt (as are most historical epics).

        We’ll have to worry when folks see movies, and they are gullible enough to believe them for fact. Incredibly, after seeing Jaws, I have not since swam in the ocean. Mostly because I have not been near an ocean.

        • Paul says:

          Kingdom Of Heaven was the same way. It took some major “creative licenses” about the Crusades, but it was still a very good movie (the director’s cut). I don’t think that I have seen too many historical movies that didn’t get somewhat creative. Otherwise the movies would probably be quite boring.

      • Paul says:

        We did have a couple of F-15Es shot down during both Iraq wars, but you are right that none have ever been lost air-to-air. We lost two E models during Desert Storm, one during Iraqi “Freedom,” and one went down over Libya last year.

        • WM says:


          I stand corrected on my …eh,… facts for the example.

          I haven’t followed the F15 in the last couple of years, and was not aware of the first Gulf war’s loss to ground fire. The Libya plane, upon reflection, I now recall. No air to air losses, still, which when one thinks about it is an astounding statistic.

          It is an incredible aircraft, so good Boeing (formerly an MDC product) have had trouble finding buyers even over its long production run. They are superior to the F16 in most applications, but also more expensive. And, in competitions for foreign military sales prospective buyers could buy 3 F16’s for the price of 2 F15’s, and still meet most of their defense needs (to the joy of the buyers but not the pilots).

          • Paul says:


            I agree. We have a wing of F-16s in Madison, WI and they are always coming and going to and from Volk Field in central Wisconsin. They are always flying over my town day and night. Great plane, but I always loved the F-15 though. When I visit Warner-Robins GA, I always get a kick out of seeing the F-15s coming and going from Robins AFB. Unfortunately, I think that the C models days are numbered with all of the airframe fatigue problems that they have been having lately. Of course the B-52 is still in service 50 years after the last one was delivered so anything can happen especially with tight budgets.

            I guess that this is not “Wildlife News” but we are talking about “Eagles” and “Falcons.” 🙂

    • CodyCoyote says:

      Did the same people who made that Russian vodka wolfpack commercial produce ” The Grey ” , to the same high standards of cinematic veracity ?

  28. Mike says:

    This Powell case is just scary. In the video (at the link), there were quotes about him allegedly killing hamsters by throwing them against cages many years ago. Not all that different from shooting fifty prairie dogs and letting them rot. Not too different at all…

  29. wiliam huard says:

    There goes the EPA again- putting jobs and those cruise ships out of business.

  30. Paul says:

    Illinois wolf poachers charged:

    Wolves naturally make their way south into an area where they are extremely rare and scum like these two come along and kill them. Of course the penalty is a slap on the wrist. Any bets that their defense will be “I thought it was a coyote?”

    “Kurt added that there is a clear difference between a wolf and a coyote, and that if hunters are not sure, they should not shoot the animal.”

    The sad thing is that there are idiots out there that have to be told this.

    • Mike says:

      Paul –

      It’s clear this is not a “Rockies” problem, but a rural a-hole problem. Sprinkle in a heavy dose of gun worship weirdness and you have a recipe for anti-wildlife douchebags.

      I feel horrible for any wolf or cougar that enters this endless plain of corn and pesticides. These hillbillies think they can shoot whatever they want.

      • Paul says:


        I have to agree with you about the endless plain of corn and pesticides. I drive all the way through IL at least once a year when going down south. I have to say that it is the longest, most boring drive that I have ever undertaken. Eastern SD isn’t even that bad, and that is one of the most boring areas that I have ever been in. It is absolutely amazing how flat that state is until you get toward the bottom. I always try to get my wife to drive it while I sleep, but that plot usually fails miserably.

        • Mike says:

          Paul –

          Agreed. To be totally honest with you, driving from Grand Teton to Crater Lake National Park felt like a half hour. Driving from Aurora, Illinois to the Iowa border feels like a day.

  31. Doryfun says:

    Why are we here?

    For those that like Richard Dawkins:

    • Paul says:

      Thanks for posting that. Dawkins, can be a little overbearing and smug sometimes but his arguments are usually very well reasoned. Personally, I always preferred Christopher Hitchens to Dawkins. As an “A word” (no, not the other A-word :)) it is always nice to hear well thought out theories about our existence that do not focus on dogma and superstition.

    • Mike says:

      Good post.

  32. Paul says:


    I do know the facts, as I took the calls. This guy is one of our local gun nuts that we dealt with daily. I am sorry but not investigating why someone with a history of mental problems is sitting across from a middle school with an AK-47 cased or not is troubling. In fact department management was troubled by how the call was handled, but they swept it under the rug because the cop was a Lt. This Lt. has a history of making questionable calls that has cost the department hundreds of thousands in lawsuits yet they still protect her. Stuff like pepper spraying handcuffed prisoners, illegally entering residences. If word got out that the PD thought it was ok for a guy with a history of mental problems to sit across the street from a middle school with an AK-47 I am sure that the public would demand that heads roll. Her reason for not taking any action? ” oh, that’s just old “John”. I think that I would have at least referred it to the DA just to cover my ass.

    • WM says:

      I am with you on those facts and a CYA consult w/ the DA to be sure there was a way of making him move along without infringing on his rights (on what facts you have given, it doesn’t look like he was doing anything illegal, unfortunately).

  33. Doryfun says:


    Can you give me a little more info about the illegal snaring in the Riggins area? I never heard about it. We did have a dead wolf show up near town a few years ago, but never did learn anything other than speculation about how it died?? If only Carter could have been around, we might have had some solid ideas.


    • Ken Cole says:

      I never learned many of the details other than there were several non-target species such as deer as well. I wish I knew more.

    • Paul says:


      I am so sick of seeing the pictures of idiots grinning over dead wolves. What is the point? Wow you blew away an animal that didn’t even know that you were there with scoped rifles. I am so impressed. And people wonder why many are sickened by hunters. It is crap like this. I know not every hunter does that, but come on. Look what two us in our matching camp outfits and high-powered scoped rifles killed from half a mile away. Wow!

      • jon says:

        I feel the same way as you Paul and many others do as well.

      • Immer Treue says:

        The posing, not the hunting, is just odd. Perhaps there will come a time in their lives and they will look at that picture(s) and have that Leopold moment.

        • Paul says:

          I just don’t get it, and I probably never will. I have more respect for a humble person than I do for someone who has to gloat like you see in many of these pictures. If it is not about “the thrill of the kill” as many hunters claim, then why take pictures of a blood soaked dead animal. And if it is for food just eat it an be done. To me it is so disrespectful toward the animal to be laying there as a bloody carcass while a human has a broad smile posing above it. Then add the rifles and it looks even more grotesque. How often do you see slaughterhouse workers posing over the dead body of a cow whose head that they just shot a bolt into? Unless it is an undercover abuse video, you don’t. I am sure I will take flack for this opinion, but it is how I feel. I just don’t get it, and have no respect for it.

          • wiliam huard says:

            It’s could be that they are egomaniacs with inferiority complexes. Always got something to prove. Every time they try to prove their manliness- another animal dies…. See what I did, aren’t I a badass- I killed that wolf with my high powered scope and rifle……You’ve witnessed all the stupid talk on the Monstermuley hunter blogs- blowhards for sure.

        • Elk275 says:

          They did have a Leopold moment, the scope he is using is a Leopold.

      • Leslie says:

        I agree Paul. And notice how that photo in your link is taken…looking up so that wolf looks gigantic when its probably only 90 pounds; about as big as my dog. And by the way, I don’t see people taking photos over their dead dogs! I think its the same thing. Its really sick.

        • Paul says:


          You are 100% correct. As I said in my post, I don’t get it, nor will I ever. It is just absolutely repulsive to me to see someone smiling over a bloody animal corpse. How did we as a species going from hunting to survive to this? It is one thing to go out and kill something that you are going to eat. It is strictly another to turn it into a contest and post grinning pictures over a vanquished animal. Sick indeed!

  34. Mike says:

    Hunters –

    Please visit this website:

    If you won’t listen to me, or to science, you should at least listen to this website created by hunters.

    They are all about maintaining the tradition of hunting in a sustainably-ethical fashion (OMG I just sounded like Mark Gamblin there).

    They have it all laid out nice and clean for you.

    There’s no reason to use lead bullets. Please stop.

    • Paul says:


      You are probably just pissing in the wind. I am sure that you will hear arguments like “If lead bullets were good enough for my granddaddy to kill Krauts and Japs with they are good enough for me to kill “‘yotes,” and “whistle pigs” with.” Then the NRA will step in and say that it is an “assault” on hunter’s rights to ban lead bullets. Finally, the Wisconsin Bear Hunters Association or SCI will chime in about how using lead is a “tradition,” and cannot be changed. Right wing lawmakers will then fall to their knees and beg for their forgiveness for offending them and denounce the whole anti-lead movement as being a “socialist” plot.

      I am trying to be sarcastic, but this seems to be quite a real possibility.

    • jon says:

      Paul, it looks like a lot of people in WI are against this bill. What are the chances that this bill will go anywhere?

    • wiliam huard says:

      Well written piece. I’m shocked the Walker Administration is trying to bully the Wisc DNR into a poorly planned wolf hunt. It seems he’s getting plenty of practice at doing everything half assed. What a frickin troll.

      • Paul says:


        It is all for the Wi Bear Hunters Association. As I said before I just cannot figure out why that group has so much sway. There are far fewer of them than deer hunters in Wisconsin yet they always seem to get what they want. I don’t know if I posted this or not but take a look at all of the groups that support the wolf killing bill:

        Click on the little “interests” dot next to each group. That will show you what their agenda is. Check out the ones for SCI and the Bear hunters. They disapprove of a bill that would make animal mistreatment a felony. That tells me all that I need to know about these groups and their ilk.

        • wiliam huard says:

          People are learning more about these anti-wildlife hunting groups. I can’t imagine the scrutiny they get will be good for their image. The majority of people in this country do not approve of using dogs for hunting…..

          • Mike says:

            The anti-predator (especially anti-wolf) agenda comes form hunters and ranchers. It does not come from anywhere else in the country.

            I am not surprised to see these hunting groups supporting extreme bills such as live animal baiting for wolves. It was hunters, after all ,that wiped out the wolf in the first place, and numerous other species.

            There are good hunters, but they are the minority.

    • Immer Treue says:


      The TWA is a great organization, on a par with the IWC in MN. I have found them to be a very cooperative organizations. That was a well written piece.

      • Paul says:

        I agree. It was rational without being emotional. Now if we can only get the blowhards in the Wisconsin Legislature to pay attention.

  35. aves says:

    “Government says it’s not at fault for goat-goring death in Olympic National Park”:

  36. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Normally wildlife conservation news from Turkey is rare. Here is an interesting article: Turkey’s First Wildlife Corridor Links Bear, Wolf and Lynx Populations to the Caucasus Forests

  37. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Chances for India´s tigers: Poaching declines
    Tiger poaching dropped nearly 60 percent in 2011 as compared to the previous year, though it continues to pose a major threat to the survival of the big cat in the country.
    Of course, the figures only reflect the cases, that come to light and may not reflect the true condition!

  38. SAP says:

    Oregon Wild proposes “wolf-friendly” beef label:

    My 2cents:

    I think this underscores the continuing need to have at least a bi-annual wolf conference similar to what used to happen at Chico. Not just for “collar & foller” wolf research, but for a good collegial “workshop” setting for exchanging ideas about the practical aspects of living with wolves. Especially as wolves expand range into places like Oregon and probably into Utah and Colorado in the near future, too. Maybe even northern California.

    It could be that a “wolf friendly” label would in fact succeed in a state with larger urban markets than what we have here in ID-MT-WY. People have tried this stuff before, though.

    The practical issue that looms largest is simply, demand: is there a viable market for “wolf friendly” meat? (and please, just because YOU would buy it, don’t write back and tell that you are SURE there’s a market). I have talked to meat buyers at various food co-ops, Wild Oats, and other outlets. These meat departments cater to those who want more than the mass market consumers who are influenced primarily by price.

    The big thing that the niche consumer wants is something healthy and tender. No hormones, ideally no grain inputs, maybe no pesticides, maybe organic. It would seem that this would be the logical customer for a “predator friendly” stamp as well. But do they care? And if they do, are there enough of them to leverage a change in practices?

    Another practical issue: say the customer wants healthy, tender, LOCAL beef. Say the customer lives in Bend, or Portland, or Eugene. There are numerous small-scale producers who satisfy all these criteria within 30 minutes of each of these cities.

    What’s more, these small-scale suburban producers are highly unlikely to have wolf conflicts. Are THEY “wolf friendly” by virtue of producing beef outside likely wolf range? They sure aren’t causing wolf deaths in their production chain.

    So . . . what’s the point, if the likely customer may be interested in a different product, and even if she were interested, are there enough of her to incentivize change at the appropriate scale?

    If it’s just symbolic (not likely to produce significant financial gains), then let’s skip the certification and marketing and keep it at a symbolic level. Keep it to non-monetary incentives — like recognition for being a skillful, creative, and innovative.

    A final issue: Eat Wild ( has maps showing where to find grassfed/natural/local whatever meat, eggs, poultry. Their map shows three producers right in the Wallowa Valley. Let’s say they go for the “Wolf Friendly” certification, maybe take a few steps to avoid conflicts. The trend right now is that their neighboring ranches aren’t likely to take similar steps, which likely would lead to lethal control.

    As far as promoting non-lethal, this is not a good approach: one neighbor gets rewarded, the other has losses that lead to lethal removal.
    What’s the local story going to be? I’d bet the local story would be that the non-lethal means didn’t do any good, but that the “wolf friendly” beneficiary is really just benefiting from the fact that his neighbor got the wolves killed.

    Non-lethal methods work GREAT in places where there are no wolves (I firmly believe they can make a big difference in places with wolves, too, but there’s no denying that a zero or very few wolves = a very low rate of conflict).

  39. Paul says:

    I just got this e-mail from Wild Earth Guardians:

    “The “Black-tailed Prairie Dog Management Act” (LB 473) would give Nebraska counties the power to control prairie dogs on private and other non-federal public land. Counties could require landowners to poison prairie dogs whether the landowner wanted to or not. Counties would have the authority to enter private land without permission to search for and poison prairie dogs. A county could even require Nebraska Game & Parks to poison prairie dogs on parks or wildlife management areas.”

    I take these people have never heard of property rights? Of course it is ranchers who are behind this bill. What a shock! I thought the GOP was all for individual rights, or so they say?

    News story about this:

  40. Paul says:

    News article about proposed common sense animal mistreatment/neglect law:

    Now I ask, why would the WI Bear Hunters Association, and SCI be against this bill?

  41. jon says:

    Ralph is in this video. Way to go Ralph.

    Live Bait, Ultralight Wolf Hunt Bill Fuels Controversy

    • Immer Treue says:

      Too bad the wolves can’t shoot back. If this is passed, I’m sure we will read about some ultra light hanging in the trees with its pilot/gunner impaled.

      • Paul says:

        Wasn’t there some federal legislation not too long ago that would have banned aerial hunting? If not there needs to be, along with banning sport hunting with dogs. But of course that will never happen.

        • Mike says:

          We can thank Obama for this one. A real Democrat rejects a rider that rips apart the Endangered Species Act.

      • jon says:

        Immer, correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t think this can be allowed on wolves since they are big game animals.I read this somewhere.

  42. JEFF E says:

    Clem makes yet another dumb ass statement proving how he and the legislature are committed to the professional, science based management of wolves.

  43. Paul says:

    What an arrogant ass. I suppose he will not give that POACHER a medal for killing that big bad Canadian Wolf.

    • Paul says:

      I meant he will NOW give the poacher a medal.

    • WM says:


      Looking behind the sarcasm and arrogance, if one stops to think of the offer, it isn’t all that ridiculous.

      Here is one state which has, in its view, more wolves than it wants, making an offer to another state that has a protectionist view (under its management plan) for the few it has, with the idea it would protect those that wander in.

      The harsh reality, I suspect, is that no state wants more, even if gratuitously offered. It is a political no win to accept. Just wait for them to come in, and wonder how you handle the politics once you get them.

      In all seriousness, I bet that is the cocktail party joke at the Governors’ conferences or get together whenever the governors of the respective states talk about this stuff outside of the range of the public ear. I bet Jerry Brown is just fine with onlyl one right now, and Kitzhaber is probably fine with two less (the one migrating out to CA and ID).

      I wonder what governor Chris of WA would say if Butch offered some?

      • Paul says:


        I would assume that many states would love to have wolves return, but the mere mention of it brings out the anti-predator nut jobs thus making it a political “hot potato.” I never have nor will I ever understand the hatred of this animal. Someone made a good point on this blog not too long ago that many of these people view the wolf as an “agent” of the federal government and make it a scapegoat to take out their hostilities on. Of course these are the same people who never turn down the handouts that those hated “feds” give them. I am just so tired of the hatred that is focused on this animal, and the hypocrisy of the people who hate it.

        • Mike says:

          The wolf is a lightning rod for the stupid and incompetent.

          • Savebears says:

            Mike it seems the wolf is a lightning rod for both sides, both the pro and the anti, look how much it gets discussed. The wolf does a good job of getting you all riled up and calling people names!

          • Salle says:

            Can’t argue with that… though I’m sure someone out there will.

      • Immer Treue says:

        +++Looking behind the sarcasm and arrogance,+++ Just what one wants from their elected official.

  44. Salle says:

    Japan Tsunami Debris May Soon Hit California Coast (VIDEO)

    This can’t be good.

  45. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Idaho offers Oregon governor more wolves; Otter to Kitzhaber: Just let me know you´re ready–Wolfish-Offer/
    You are doing carnival speeches in Idaho?

  46. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Rep. Sherrie Sprenger: Cougar crisis has easy solution Ah, you´ve got a Cougar crisis in Oregon! Maybe they could make a deal and exchange some for some wolves from Idaho…….

  47. Peter Kiermeir says:

    A lot of wolf “management” news in the press this morning.
    Mead backs wolf law in State of State talk
    Gov. Matt Mead in his State of the State address Monday urged Wyoming lawmakers to pass a wolf management plan that would let wolves be shot on sight in most of the state.

  48. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Online Petition Aims to Stop Senseless Killing of Missouri’s Mountain Lions
    Now, look what actors we´ve got in this story: A Senator with the agenda to eradicate mountain lions and a cop who does not agree!

  49. Salle says:

    Rocky Barker: Judge B. Lynn Winmill drives sage grouse plans

    “A federal judge ordered the Bureau of Land Management this month to place the needs of sage grouse above the needs of cattle ranchers.

    U.S. District Judge B. Lynn Winmill of Boise ruled the federal land agency did not do that when it renewed five grazing permits in Owyhee County — even though the BLM said the area was important sage grouse habitat.”

  50. guepardo lento says:

    Lynx reported in central Idaho by IDFG. Article doesn’t mention any attempt at collaring the animal, but I’m a little surprised that a collar wasn’t placed on it since it was already in a trap. Not that I think every animal needs a collar…

  51. aves says:

    Georgia congressman trying to turn a National Wildlife Refuge over to developers.

  52. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Idaho gives Oregon ‘apology,’ gets no snarling over wolf
    There could be a few minor inaccuracies in this article (and, the joke itself is a little bit worn out in the meantime): “……the reintroduction the Canadian gray wolf in a program that has the support of the Obama administration”

    • WM says:

      Even if one finds Butch’s letter offering excess wolves to OR Gov. Kitzhaber offensive, it had the intended effect. Keeping the issue in the spotlight, with national press exposure and a little spin was a brilliant political move to keep up the momomentum. From the article:

      ++The Fish and Wildlife Service reintroduced wolves into Idaho, Montana and Wyoming in 1995, but the animals have since spread to Oregon, Washington and, in the case of at least one wolf, California. Where wolves go, livestock killings are sure to follow, as well as thinning elk herds, environmental lawsuits and fights over land-use management plans.++

  53. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Another one, similar quality:
    Wyoming prepares to end federal wolf protections
    “….We have lost the ability to manage that which belongs to us — our wildlife, where wolves threaten our Ag, wildlife and outfitters,” he said. “It is time to move forward.”
    Read more:

    • CodyCoyote says:

      The Steve Ferrell quoted in the story is not just Governor Matt Mead’s wildlife coordinator ( read: hired gun ) , Ferrell is also a former Wyoming Game & Fish director.

      So—read that quote by him carefully : from one side of his mouth he says the state should now be managing wolves like it manages all intrastate wildlife ( paraphrased) , and from the other side of his mouth he says that same wolf threatens wildlife ( along with ag ).

      In other words and bluntly so; Wyoming does not consider wolves to be wildlife, except when it suits them to say so but not act so.

      Or as I have long put it: in Wyoming the term ‘Predator’ means one thing to a scientist , ecologist or conservationist , and another thing altogether to a rancher or his lawyer.

      Dueling Definitions. Duplicity. Deceit, even.

      • JB says:


        Wildlife in general fall under three legal classifications: Protected, game, and nuisance/vermin. So I think what Ferrell is saying–indeed what Wyoming has said all along–is that wolves are a nuisance/vermin species of wildlife, not a game species. [Note: I’m not defending their actions, merely trying to clarify the comments.]

        • WM says:

          One could further classify that a protected or game species in one geographic location might also be classified nuisance/vermin in another.

          For example, the cougar that wonders close to an elementary school or supermarket parking lot, OR the wolf that is outside the GYE and into the Predator Zone, would take the classification of the latter when in that location.

          Same thing in MN when wolves come out of the forested area in the NE 1/3 of the state (they call it Zone A) into the farmland further south (Zone B). The zones are bounded geographically. The recovery goal for Zone B, according to the plan is zero wolves, where “potentially depredating wolves can be removed” in accordance with Depredation Management provisions [2001 MN Wolf Management Plan, p. 20-21].

          It is my understanding, very few, if any, wolves are present today in Zone B. State/WS depredation management and subtle 3S (as opposed to loud 3S in the NRM) are the reasons.

          Cody, don’t think WY is unique in that respect.

  54. CodyCoyote says:

    A New York Times story of a scientist at work , in this case Michigan wildlife ecologist John Vucetich , in diary form.

  55. CodyCoyote says:

    A writer from northern Montana who claims she has a Maser’s in Biology ( and doctorate in Botany ) has written a scathing letter to an Ag service about the genetic shortcomings of Yellowstone Bison , vis-a-via Mitchondrial DNA . ” The Inconvenient Truth About Yellwostone Bison ” claims they are genetically inferior Bison and ill-adapted to cold winter weather , incapable of escaping predators , and secure mates.

    Never heard this before. I think the symptoms she describes would be news to most of the Yellowstone Bison I know have heard.

    Any validation to this notion from another source , preferably not entrenched in Montana Ag politics ?

      • Nancy says:

        Hell of a read Immer! A lot of it greek to the average layperson (myself included 🙂 but a few interesting points:

        How is it possible that a bad polymorphism has spread so widely? This is not at all surprising given a severely bottlenecked nineteenth century bison population expanding from a small number of individuals, in conjunction with a greatly diminished role for natural selection ever since (ie disruptive management practices such as random culls, gender imbalance and trophy hunting).

        Even if experimental data establishes significant dysfunction, the bison are evidently viable. Herds such as those at Grand Teton National Park — which appear 100% affected and have no prospects for correction without outside re-introductions — persist through long winters, fend off predators and expand their population each year. Yet genomic management is still important (as argued for many years by Derr) because these bison do not accurately represent the genetics of wild nineteenth century bison and consequently not their capabilities, behaviors or even ecosystem interactions.

        Because of its peculiar inheritance and lack of recombination, the mitochondrial genome can be managed in isolation — but should it? Its 13 encoded proteins represent less than 0.1% of the 20,000 total. Although little is currently known about the distribution of advantageous and deleterious nuclear alleles, that situation is changing very rapidly as new genome projects are completed for yak, bison and steppe bison. (The cattle SNP chip is an interim survey technique that does not satisfactorily inventory or assess amino acid changes genomewide.)

        In free-ranging bison herds such as Yellowstone, it is currently impractical to track individual animal genotypes. Here natural selection is the best option; current uninformed culling is very dangerous. The Yellowstone herd size of 3900 may well suffice to maintain genetic diversity over time — the problem is, we don’t want to maintain that genetic diversity as it now stands. Certain haplotypes are deleterious and far too common. Even genetically pure bison have been adversely affected by past human actions

  56. Ryan says:

    Vegan turns hunter, pretty cool article that sums in a large part why I hunt and fish.

    • WM says:

      I bet alot of folks don’t know that the host of America’s Test Kitchen on PBS (one of those cooking shows on Saturday’s) is a hunter. Yes, it is true Chris Kimball is a deer and rabbit hunter in Vermont. He lives in Boston, but come fall is in the woods, and usually bags a buck. This year I think it was a little two point (they call the four points back east).

      How do I know this? My wife makes me watch the cooking shows with her on Saturday sometimes. I have learned alot, especially from Kimball and his great chefs, and also Jacque Pepin (the older French guy who used to cook with Julia Childs).

      • somsai says:

        I wish the Test Kitchen folks would do more on cooking game. My wife recently realized that America really does have a great cooking tradition and has been checking that book out of the library with regularity.

    • SEAK Mossback says:

      Here’s a similar story about a woman who actually made a movie about her conversion, with lots of humor complete her getting whacked pretty good during her first experience shooting a rifle, etc. I saw it when she presented it in Juneau, with audience discussion afterward. She was a vegetarian from back east who married a Sitka fisherman. It was of course an extreme example, showing how absurd it would have been to carry on with a strict diet of imported veggies in one of the most bountiful places on the planet for quantity, quality and variety of readily available animal tissue, and having all the equipment and professional expertise in the family to easily access it. It would be like living on an Iowa farm and swearing off corn. So while it has limited situational applicability, the message is mainly pro-locavore rather than suggesting everybody could live just like she does.

    • somsai says:

      I read that article, it is good. Tovar has written for some other main stream publications as he writes well. His web page often generates a lot of comments, and his first book was launched a couple days ago.

      Another former vegan turned hunter who writes on how to start hunting and more recently how to hunt invasive species for food is Jack Landers Jack does more hunting than writing, seemingly hunting or fishing continuously. From his videos he’s an agressive hunter, he goes for it. Very competent at several types of hunting also. He is comfortable eating new things and approaches foods with an open mind.

    • Peter Kiermeir says:

      And do not forget to savor the comment section to this article, with one brilliant genius bragging about how “he and his gunners (!!)” killed dozens of these “persky varmints” from the air in Alaska and “only a dead wolf is a god wolf”.

  57. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Wyoming lawmakers push wolves for Central Park
    +While the bill is meant to be humorous, Jaggi says it’s also a push back at people from other states who want to tell Wyoming how to manage its affairs+

    • william huard says:

      When conservatives aren’t working to bash animals (and people) this is the type of stuff they waste taxpayer money on. While they rail against the Federal Government telling them to buy health health insurance they focus on writing legislation to force women to have an invasive ultrasound(against their will and without consent). These wingnuts are such hypocrites. How’s that for freedom and small government?

      • Salle says:

        In the minds of these clowns a the level of recognition afforded a woman is akin to the level of respect one would have for a dog, well, maybe lower than that. We are not to be given actual rights, only the appearance of rights, shadowed by the ever-present oppression of the male component of our species… aided by indoctrinated females.

        Notice that it’s mostly old white hold-overs from the good ol’ witch-hunt days making up this rubbish. They fear us and thus must keep us under control by any means possible, including violence of some sort on every level.

        • Salle says:

          And for those who think I’m kidding or just biased… I offer you this as just one example of what women face in the 21st century in America, the world:

          I encourage everyone to watch the 1:35 min. video.

          Inappropriately pious PsOS. If a man ever became pregnant, this would have been settled immediately for his convenience and comfort. Men and their childish, unfounded fear of women. The fear seems to originate with the power of biologic reproduction, something that requires phenomenal biological investment on the part of women and little on the part of men… they fear us for that and have made no mild matter of the oppression that they insist is their right by virtue of brute force and ignorance with the innate focus on fulfillment of their sexual and control over someone/something issues.

  58. CodyCoyote says:

    Ev er hear of the Heartland Institute, based in Chicago ? Heartland is one of the leading if not the top NGO dedicated to debhunking-derailing any notion that man-caused LCimate Change is real. And they are very active and well connected and have a definite political agenda. That agenda is now focussing more and more on the teaching of climate science in the nation’s public schools.It is significantly funded by the infamous Koch Brothers and their ilk, and now the donor list is out there, thanks to some internal skullduggery,i.e. the purloining and release of internal Heartland documents.

    Read more in today’s New York Times online, and I’m sure there will be other stories at other media sites yet to come.

    • Salle says:

      And this is also part of the privatization of our public schools agenda. If they can control the message, they win… or so they think.

      I guess these a$$holes believe that the commonfolk are not capable of independent cognitive functioning… for a portion of the population this is probably true but not a large portion.

      And for those of us who do possess this ability, I’m sure they have plans to silence and eliminate that poulation segment in order to control the world before they are too old and drop dead… if we can only hold out until the great die-off of the old aristocrat-wannbes.

      • Immer Treue says:


        +++And this is also part of the privatization of our public schools agenda. If they can control the message, they win… or so they think.+++

        I don’t really think “they” are controlling the message at this time. It’s more of the industrio-complex education system that is becoming more entrenched. Test scores drive everything, and text book maufacturers also produce grading programs and the standardized tests that are now so prevalent. Certain companies now have a monopoly in the field.

        Independent thought is being stifled. Home schooling is becoming an increasingly more appealing way to attend school.

        • Salle says:

          Home schooling indeed. Half the parents I know are doing that. the problem there is the indoctrination factor where really whacked out folks teach their children stuff that is just too far from reality and then they grow up believing that what their parents told them is gospel and, therefore, you end up with some unbelievably entrenched idiots, some of whom might be the antagonists on the blogs we visit and like those who go to pubic hearings and exhibit their ignorance of civics and the lack of merit in their claims like I saw at a public hearing just last night.

          • Immer Treue says:


            Agreed in terms of the short comings of home schooling. Then again, those of us engaged in education who encourage thought by our students are accused of this same indoctrination.

            I fear for education in this country, which is becoming one of instant gratification.

  59. Salle says:

    Security services deem environmental, animal-rights groups ‘extremist’ threats

    It’s already happening, folks.

    • Paul says:

      “CSIS analysts also highlight PETA’s opposition to the Canadian seal hunt and report the organization’s plan to launch a website that portrays the mascot of the 2010 Vancouver Olympics as “bloodthirsty seal killers.” And they note PETA’s threat to boycott Canadian maple syrup.”

      How does this activity constitute a threat? So informational websites and boycotts are now potential “terrorism?” Don’t get me wrong, I think PETA’s methods are often embarrassing, and set animal welfare back rather than forward, but come on. So they have a problem with grown men bashing in the skulls of week old seals, and dare to speak out and they are labeled as potential terrorists? I have a problem with that to, is Canada going to label me?

      I think that these security organizations should be looking for the next 9/11, Timothy McVeigh, Jared Loughner, etc. rather than worrying about who PETA boycotts or protests.

      • Salle says:

        That’s the argument they make while knowing all the while that this is bunk. What the real issue is has t do with the almighty $$ and the corporate control over our lives through intimidation.

        This kind of crap reminds me of sNewt gingrinch which makes me think of the book, “Animal Farm” and that pig, Napoleon, who early on discovers a fresh litter of Doberman pups and secretly trains them to eliminate all opposition at his beck and call, as he assumes ultimate power over the Farm and its inhabitants whom he converts to slaves… (I came up with that comparison of sNewt and Napoleon back in 1994.)

    • somsai says:

      I’d think that radical environmental groups should be watched carefully for the hate speech they often employ if for no other reason. I’d think it’s not too much of a jump to go from wishing death on others online to taking it up in real life.

      They seem to follow much the same pattern as followers of Glen Beck and other members of the radical right in the US.

      • Salle says:

        Extremism is extremism at any peripheral edge of a debate.

        I like the analogy of the solar system with regard to this concept. If you visualize the solar system with the sun at the center, there are a number of bodies circulating around it, each a little further from the center yet bound to the system. This could be thought of as the degrees of normalcy in a sense.

        Then you have these outside figures like comets and asteroids etc. that come whizzing through from time to time… those would be the extreme interests/figures which are not confined to the regular forces of our solar system in all it’s normal variety and whom are mostly dependent upon shock value and other activities that are generally eschewed by the “normals” who exist within the system.

        That’s the basics of how I picture extremism in our society.

        What the political right is trying to do is discredit any opposition to their secular agenda which is to manipulate public opinion to believe they are the only true salvation for our special nation and its special status according to their belief system. All must comply with their special mandates or else they will enslave the nonbelievers because they deserve it for displeasing the chosen deity. A case of foisting their religion on those who disagree with it or choose not to recognize it. Religion has no place in politics but there’s always someone who insists that it is the foundation of the society and nation… NOT.

        Gee, might it be time to revisit Niccolo Machiavelli’s Discourses in order to see what’s going on? (Much maligned by those whom he exposed as despots and tyrants for centuries after his death, Machiavelli did not invent the egregious practices of governing attributed to him, he was actually describing what he witnessed in his work as a civil servant.)

      • CodyCoyote says:

        somsai—please cite some specific examples of specific ” radical ” environmentalists and examples of their hate speech and/or overt actions .

        Then we’ll compare your Usual Suspects list to the whole.

        By the way , I do not consider organized animal rights activists to be on the same bus with Earth First! , ELF , or even Greenpeace for that matter. But apparently the ” security services” aren’t educated enough to make the necessary distinctions , or else just need more scapegoats.

  60. Salle says:

    Canadian Government is ‘Muzzling Its Scientists’

    This is an interesting article about the suppression of scientists for political interests. Since the northern version of “W” hit Canada, things just aren’t the same. It shows how the Harper admin. is trying to keep a lid on info/truth about the tar sands project from reaching the public at large, and other issues.

    • william huard says:

      Canada is a petro-state. The Conservatives will run over wolves, predators, the caribou, the boreal forest, the environment, to further the interests of the money grubbers in the oil industry. The politicians will go along for the ride- all in the name of progress

  61. Salle says:

    US House OKs Opening Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to Oil Drilling

    It is said that this will die in the senate but I will be watching… because politicians will politicians after all.

  62. Salle says:

    Delusions of the Corporate State

    “In the very beginning of his “Politics,” Aristotle said that a state has to provide its citizens more than military security or a place for living. A state must afford its citizens ample opportunities to be self-sufficient and have a good life. Indeed, autarkeia, or self-sufficiency, is the purpose and happiness of a successful state. Aristotle would say America no longer serves the public good, its government being held hostage by an oligarchy on the verge of becoming a tyranny, by far the worst form of organization or constitution or government.

    The citizens of America must push the servants of oligarchy out of office, the very people who made a killing with their 2008 financial disaster. Americans must return to the Greek-inspired path of Thomas Jefferson: reinvigorate democracy while bringing the military-industrial complex under control.

    The one comment is pretty good…

  63. Salle says:

    EXPOSED: The 19 Public Corporations Funding The Climate Denier Think Tank Heartland Institute

  64. Salle says:

    Corporate campaign$ coming to Montana $oon:

    Supreme Court allows Montana corporation election spending

    One can just imagine what the topic$ of contentiou$, vitriolic $putum treatment these moneybagger$ will contrive.

  65. Paul says:

    Opinion piece (admittedly slanted) about attempts by hunting/trapping groups to control all public land in Wisconsin, and more about the insane wolf bill:

  66. Paul says:

    Coyotes still main deer predator, U.P. Study shows:

    From the article:

    “The cumulative three-year record shows coyotes have preyed on seven adult deer in the study, wolves on three and bear and bobcat one each.

    Similarly, over the three years coyotes have preyed on 22 fawns, outpacing bobcats (12 fawns), bears (four) and wolves (four). One fawn was killed by a bald eagle.”

    Great now they will want a bald eagle hunting season. If these studies keep showing this, why does the wolf get all of the blame? It is amazing how offended many hunters get when wildlife acts like wildlife.

  67. aves says:

    Feds probe eagle deaths at California wind farm:

  68. CodyCoyote says:

    This is somewhat surprising. Wyoming donors outcontribute any other state in donating to the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, even California, which has 46 times the population and had previously been the top donor state to RMEF.

  69. Paul says:

    Excellent article about OR-7 and how the antis are freaking out:

    Excellent comment following the article:

    “Already suspicious of big government,” they are content to have their lives, environment and freedom controlled by Big Ag, Big Mining, Big Lumber, Big beef and Big Energy. Those are the real Big Bad Wolves.”

  70. Salle says:

    Seasick: Dead Sea Otters, the Canaries in a Coal Mine of ‘Sick Seas’
    Changing temperatures increase invasive parasites: marine life, humans at risk

    • Salle says:

      This appears at the end of the article above:

      “The Vancouver Sun reports:

      The disturbing discovery comes as federal funding for such investigations is drying up. “Funding in the U.S. and Canada has been cut for all marine mammal surveillance work,” [Stephen Raverty, a veterinary pathologist] said.

      That could mean a dramatic decline in the recovery of stranded marine mammals and post-mortem examinations, which are funded by Ottawa […]

      ‘I understand budgets have to be balanced, but it’s [important] to make people aware of what’s happening and the potential impact on our ability to pursue these investigations.'”

    • Nancy says:

      More on toxoplasma gondii:

  71. Salle says:

    Ahead in Polls, Santorum Says Global Warming Is Politics, Not Science


    • Ralph Maughan says:


      Regarding this and the article you posted above, the treatment of illness, including infectious illness is being completely politicized by pre-scientific thinking just as is global warming.

      Not to bring God into it, but if the conservative anti-science folks don’t end up killing off most humans and animals in the near future it will be a miracle.

      Well I guess it doesn’t matter if zygoats and corporations get as much protection as the dying real people. 🙁

      • Salle says:


        I agree.

        The article about the infectious diseases found in sea mammals and others is quite disturbing and the news about it is being stifled. I posted an article yesterday on this thread about the Canadian gov’t playing the “W” card… completely manipulate and thwart all efforts by scientists to have contact with the public via the press.

        This is part of the conversation that we the people have to keep out in the public eye for all our sake.

        For the billionth time… it’s the biosphere, folks. (If you don’t know where it is, look it up because it’s the place where we all live on this planet. If the biosphere gets depleted in diversity and overall health, we’re toast… literally and figuratively.)

        One caveat, I get the feeling there are more regular people who aren’t deniers than there are deniers. The problem is that the deniers have the $$ and power and a death grip on our resources.

  72. CodyCoyote says:

    New York Times editorial calls the Eepartment of Interior onto the carpet for giving Wyoming everything it wanted for a state Wolf management plan, in effect caving in and selling the ranch. It isn’t too kind to Wyoming , either. It takes note of the unique situation with the John D. Rockefeller Parkway lands between Yellowstone and Teton Park , which Wyoming want to hunt but DOI previously said was off limits. Well…

    • william huard says:

      I am stunned at the incompetence of Ashe and Salazar. They completely cave on everything after Wyoming says that they want “state management” of wolves…..and then couldn’t even get this small concession of the Rockefeller Parkway? It is shocking. I don’t know what is worse- the evilness of the predator haters in Wyoming’s Governors office or the complete ineptness of the DOI……The Parkway should be off limits- as if the predator hating goons won’t be there to have some target practice at wolves trying to cross the two areas. It makes you want to scream- but then again I am just an emotional person

  73. Salle says:

    Why Politicians Are Afraid to Vote Pro-Environment
    As presidential campaigns heat up, preaching green has become a political liability.

  74. Salle says:

    ‘Perpetual Growth Myth’ Leading World to Meltdown: Experts
    UN-Sponsored Papers Predict Sustained Ecological and Social Meltdown

    “The perpetual growth myth … promotes the impossible idea that indiscriminate economic growth is the cure for all the world’s problems, while it is actually the disease that is at the root cause of our unsustainable global practices”

    • Doryfun says:

      “Unlimited freedom is an oxymoron, for there can be no freedom unless we observe the limites that make freedom possilbe.” – Garrett Hardin, who addressed the Perpetual Motion Machine Mythology in his book Living within Limits, back in 1993,

      The only thing tht approaches pertual motion is our convoluted thinking about not including the economoy of nature with that of industry,and balancing relgion and science for how natural resources will be conserved or used up.

  75. Paul says:

    More news from Scott Walker’s war on the environment in Wisconsin. This time weakening wetland protections:

    Check out the article following this about about eliminating punitive damages in discrimination in the workplace claims.

    Wow! Not only does the Wisconsin GOP hate the environment and wolves, but they also seem to hate women and minorities. What the hell happened to my state? We used to be probably the most progressive state in the union next to Vermont, now this? It feels like I went to sleep one night in Wisconsin and woke up the next day in Alabama.

    • Salle says:

      Paul, that’s really sad. I lived around Dane county for several years abck in the early 1980s. I was a great place then. I’m saddened to see the state go down this path. That being said, I remember marching to the capitol (now thought of as the “capital”) on issues of injustice for consumers… just before the Bell conglomerate was divvied up.

      I’m sure you know about this:

      David Koch Admits Plans To Buy Public Support And, Possibly, An Election

      • Salle says:


        I lived around Dane county for several years back in the early 1980s. It was a great place then.

  76. Headwaters says:

    Look at the quote from the Alberta Fish and Game Association. Pathetic. They used to be one of Alberta’s strongest voices for conservation. Now all they are about is ATV access, trying to get the grizzly season reopened, and sucking up to oil companies.

    • Salle says:

      Lest we forget who Harper’s best buddy is… our most recent ex-president and his side-kick W. Seems he’s doing a pretty good job of mimicking our (US’s) backslide in recognizing the importance of the biosphere.

  77. Salle says:

    If anyone wonders why some anti-gun proponents get the impression that member/followers of the nra and like organizations have a serious deficiency in intellect and knowledge of civics in the US and that they promote a trigger happy ignorance…

    NRA Get Out the Vote Campaign Features Proponents of Political Violence

    • william huard says:

      I have to laugh when I hear that “ethically challenged fella” Ted Nugent make comments about “freedom”. These flat earthers have a very different view of what freedom means. He’s a washed up, has been musician who plays his out of tune muzak on Huckabee……

    • Nancy says:

      VERY disturbing article Salle.

      • Paul says:

        Holy crap! The people are frickin psychotic. I think that Chuck Norris really believes that he can act out in the manner that his dull wooden face characters to in his movies. What an arrogant ass.

        I also wouldn’t take what Ted “Poacher” Nugent says too seriously. That washed up hack does anything he can to keep his name in the media, now that his music career dried up 30 years ago. The fact that this raving lunatic even has a forum is disturbing. Nothing like a draft-dodging “chicken hawk” trying to be a bad ass.

        I used to like Ermey until I read this. What a bigoted prick.

        Does it really surprise anyone that the NRA chooses extremists like these to speak for them?

      • Salle says:

        It is disturbing to see that a$$wipes like these get so much press to spew their ignorance.

    • JEFF E says:

      Nugent must have been looking in the mirror with this statement.”He is a bad, evil, rotten human being”.

      • william huard says:

        That’s a typical conservative response to anyone that doesn’t agree with their views. The views of hypocrites that blab about the constitution as they pass legislation to deny certain groups from voting. These people hate repressive big government as they pass ultrasound legislation to force women to have procedures against their will. This is freedom. Republicans like Walker, Mcdonnell and most Republicans for that matter, are never are honest with people about what they plan to do once they get into office, because they wouldn’t get elected if they did. I hope people are waking up. At least “flat earth Rick” is showing the whole country how much of a lunatic he is.
        Nugent is irrelevant and a has been… and his ego hates that more than anything. Hey- there’s always Huckabee.

        • Salle says:

          I don’t know much about the Ermey guy but I do know that Nugent and Norris are a couple of brain damaged clowns.

  78. Salle says:

    White House Refuses to Release Email From Monsanto-Linked Lobbyist

    “The White House is withholding documents requested under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) by an environmental group that suspects the Obama administration of working with Monsanto-linked lobbyists to defend the planting of genetically engineered (GE) crops in wildlife refuges across the country.

  79. Kayla says:

    Just heard of this, so if this has been posten then excuse me. The US 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that the National Forest can’t collect fees for those who simply park, hike, or picnic along the road and trails with even camping in undeveloped sites should be free. A lawsuit was brought against the Forest Service and their fees by several individuals near Tucson, AZ. for the Forest service charging to park and hike in the Mt. Lemmon / Sabino canyon area. There are numerous news articles now over the net. Here are several ….

    US 9th Circuit Court Rules NF Can’t Coollect Fees

    Court Halts Fees For Use of FS Land –
    This is out of the http://azstar

    Fee Foes hail Ruling Against Forest Service –
    This is out of the Durango Herald –

    • Salle says:

      Perhaps they were trying to apply FLERA (?)user fees that are collected in developed areas.

  80. jon says:

    Over 22,000 just to kill 14 wolves, so there will be more elk for hunters to kill? hmmm

  81. Salle says:

    Here’s yet another reason why mining the tar sands is a bad idea:

    Wildlife officers shoot 145 black bears in oilsands region


  82. Salle says:

    This crap just never seems to end:

    News Release
    Idaho Department of Fish and Game
    600 South Walnut
    P.O. Box 25
    Boise, ID 83707-0025

    “To Preserve, Protect, Perpetuate and Manage”

    Contact: Idaho Fish and Game 208-334-3746
    For Immediate Release

    Wolf Control is Part of F&G’s Predation Management Plan
    In cooperation with Idaho Fish and Game, the USDA Wildlife Services has completed a wolf control action in northern Idaho’s Lolo zone.
    Over three days in early February, Wildlife Services agents killed 14 wolves from a helicopter. The action is part of, and consistent with Idaho’s predation management plan for the Lolo elk zone.
    In the Lolo zone, hunters have taken 11 wolves, trappers have taken 11, control efforts earlier in spring 2011 took six, and the most recent control effort took 14 for a total of 42 wolves.
    The control action is part of continuing efforts to reduce excess predation on elk herds in the Lolo zone. Elk numbers in the Lolo zone have not met objectives in recent years with predation being the most important factor limiting elk.
    In recent years wolves have been identified as the primary cause of death in female elk and calves over six months old. But the habitat in the area is capable of supporting an increased population, Deputy Director Jim Unsworth said.
    “We’d like to see one of Idaho’s premier elk populations recover as much as possible,” he said.
    In September, 2010, Fish and Game submitted a proposal to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to allow wolf control actions in the Lolo elk zone under a provision of the Endangered Species Act. The initial target of that proposal was the removal of 40 to 50 wolves.
    In May, 2011, after wolves in Idaho were removed from the endangered species list, Fish and Game resumed management and initiated the first control action guided by the predation management plan for the Lolo and Selway elk zones. (
    Fish and Game will continue to monitor elk, moose and wolf populations, and will manage predation with an objective of increasing the Lolo elk herd.
    Wolf populations are not in jeopardy in the Lolo zone, but Fish and Game intends to maintain wolf numbers at a level that will result in reduced elk mortality.
    Before the start of the hunting season last fall, the population was estimated at about 75 to 100 wolves, with additional animals crossing back and forth between Idaho and Montana.
    Elk will be monitored to see whether the population increases in response to regulated hunting, trapping and wolf control actions.
    No more aerial control actions are planned at this time. The wolf hunting season in the Lolo continues through June, and the trapping season continues through the end of March.
    The cost of the action is estimated at $22,500 in license funds.
    As of February 22, hunters and trappers have taken a total of 318 wolves across the state.


    • Salle says:

      I suspect Beetlejuice, I mean IDF&GMark will bless us with the usual pap any moment now…

    • Paul says:

      14 wolves killed for $22,000? That sounds like some of that good old fiscal conservatism to me. These bastards are really proud of this aren’t they? Gunships, no quota hunting/trapping, soon to be live bait, shooting from para-gliders, 10 month killing season. If this isn’t a “war” on wolves I do not know what it is. I said before that their goal is not “management” it is eradication so that there are no wolves left to re-list.

    • william huard says:

      Hunting and trapping right through denning season. Gamblin and the d bags in the IDFG must be so proud they got 14 frickin wolves. Take a picture Mark with wolf blood smeared on your face you ass%^&*.

  83. Salle says:

    In case there’s any doubt in anyone’s mind:

    Super PAC donors revealed: Who are the power players in the GOP primary?

  84. Salle says:

    This is one of the reasons why I like Ted:

    Stop Keystone pipeline before it’s too late

    • william huard says:

      This is terrible news. They need to keep releasing wolves and not let the dbag ranchers and haters win.

      • Maska says:

        Remember that 5 out of the first 11 lobos released in AZ in 1998 were shot. Another went missing, and some were recaptured. This is most assuredly not the time to back off…. ^..^

  85. Paul says:

    Insane Wisconsin wolf bill passes Assembly Committee:

    • Immer Treue says:

      After several amendments introduced were tabled, Rep. Chris Danou, D-Trempealeau, said he still supported passage of the bill despite his concerns.

      “I think we could have probably tightened this up on more,” Danou said. “Like I said, we are embarking on a journey into the unknown. Wisconsin has never had a managed wolf hunt. We may not have a managed wolf hunt. Who knows?”

      Then why in the hell does he support it? Idiot!

      • Salle says:

        Dublespeek at it’s finest.

      • Paul says:


        I watched the hearing yesterday. This same guy then invited the committee to come up to his county to “shoot some ducks” at the end of the hearing. Then he made the comment that he hopes he gets a wolf tag so he can take his son wolf hunting. The Democrats completely sold out on this and voted for it after being humiliated by the GOP goons on the committee. My own representative who is on the committee assured me Monday that he did not support the bill and would not vote for it. Then he votes for it. I am waiting for a phone call from his office about this. What the hell is wrong with this state?

        • Paul says:

          I just had a pretty lengthy conversation with a high ranking DNR wolf ecologist(I am actually shocked that he called me back!). I talked to him about this insane bill that Wisconsin is pushing. He could not make an “official” comment about it, but he also had serious concerns about the bill, and thinks that upon passage it is highly likely to be challenged in court.

          He also “unofficially” agreed with me that this bill was most likely written by SCI and the WI Bear Hunters Association. He wanted to make it clear that the DNR does not oppose a public wolf hunt, but they are very concerned about this legislation and what it entails. He also told me that the bill was even more extreme than we thought. He said that there was a provision that labeled the wolf as a “nuisance” animal that land owners could trap and kill for the entire year with no limits. That part was apparently removed along with the unlimited February hunting. He also expressed extreme concern about the night hunting, use of dogs, etc. Especially concerning is the provision that allows shooting from the road and across roads. This only applies to wolves and no other animal.

          He said that according to the bill the DNR is supposedly allowed to set the number of licenses and quota, and close the season if too many are killed. He assured me that there will not be an all out slaughter of wolves, and the kill numbers are likely to be set a low number for the first few years. He said that there will also be a limited number of tags allowed. I hope he is right, but with this legislature and governor anything is possible.

          If this passes I look forward to the court challenges, and trying to see how Suder and his cronies justify the provisions in the bill, and why they think they are acceptable for a species just off the list.

          • william huard says:


            I talked with the same contact you did last week or the week before I’m sure. He called me right back as well. Doesn’t it annoy you that the Bear Hunters and Safari Clump(of sh&*)get so involved with these bills? I can smell their stench from here. You know the leg will be anti-wildlife and ethically challenged…..

          • Paul says:


            You are so right about that. What I don’t understand is why the Democrats are selling out on this. They have absolutely nothing to gain and only give the GOP thugs more power. I am so disgusted at my Rep. and his about face on this. He lost my vote because of it. I really think that these scumbag groups get everything that they want because they are so well organized. Animal protection groups lack that kind of organization to consolidate their power. We better get it together quick all over the country or these thugs are going to have their way even more than they do now.

            I am also working on a project that you may be interested in. You have any idea how we can exchange email addresses or contact info? I think that you are going to like this. I don’t have a Facebook account (I hate it) but I can set one up if that is a way to get in touch if you want.

          • william huard says:

            I give Ralph or Ken permission to give you my email if that’s possible.

          • Paul says:

            Thanks Ken. William I sent you an email.

          • william huard says:

            Thanks Ken.

          • Mike says:

            I’d be interested in hearing more about this group, too, Paul, and what I could do to help.

          • Paul says:


            Absolutely. Just ask Ken if he can send you my email address or vise versa. If it is ok with William I will give you his as well.

          • william huard says:

            Give Mike my email too. I was hoping he would get involved with us.

  86. william huard says:,0,1387814.story

    I don’t know if anyone saw the rhino piece on NBC last night hosted by Brian Williams. Poachers are hacking off rhino horn and leaving these rhinos alive. Even trophy hunters are selling old trophies back into the black market to cash in on the rhino horn windfall.
    Just like with lion carcasses, the trophy hunters take the pelt, have it mounted, and the lion bone ends up in the black market to feed the vampires in the Asian market. Black markets, free markets, everyone profits. Nothing goes to waste, and populations of lions continue to plummet.

  87. Salle says:

    This may not readily appear to concern wildlife but the widespread impacts truly are about wildlife and everything else that we consider to be “alive”.

    Agent Orange comes to a cornfield near you…

    Dow and Monsanto Join Forces to Poison America’s Heartland
    Dow and Monsanto Join Forces to Poison America’s Heartland

  88. Salle says:

    Deniergate: Grijalva Calls For Investigation Of Department Of Interior Scientist On Heartland Payroll

    Suggestion: follow links to the scientists background. He sounds like one of W’s schills that he “implanted” for his not-soon-enough-departure from office.

  89. Salle says:

    Some of the things that I think make Bill Gates scary and even creepy:

    Bill Gates: We Need Genetically Modified Seeds

  90. Paul says:

    More Wisconsin insanity from one of the clowns behind the wolf hunting bill and husband of soon to be recalled Lt. Governor. This actually made the New York Times before the the insane wolf bill has:

  91. Immer Treue says:

    One of our favorites demonstrating the great depths of intelligence and restraint.

    • Paul says:

      I really wish that I didn’t read that(expletive. Why do absolute (expletive) idiots like this guy have an audience? I see that the usual (expletives) show up in the comments. I see that “nowolves” is “reality22” here. What absolute piles of (expletive)these people are. 🙂

    • Salle says:

      Why is it that every wildlife species ends up with management plans that only turn out to be a plan on how to go about killing them?

      And in this case, wolverines, nobody knows how many are left, yet all these folks can do is think about killing them anyway. What a sick social comment on our way of doing things – and more specifically calling to attention the severe lack of respect for that which was not manufactured by humans.

  92. Paul says:

    More information about the insane Wisconsin wolf bill:

    Quotes from the article:

    “Lansing said Suder and Rivard are working with the DNR and stakeholders to make sure the bill addresses all aspects of a wolf season.”

    Of course what they fail to mention is that the only people that they consider “stakeholders” are hunters/trappers and livestock interests. The rest of us do not count.

    This one is even better:

    “Lansing and Rivard said there are people who oppose the idea of any kind of a wolf season, but they don’t expect that sentiment to derail the bill.

    “The only argument they have is they don’t want anyone to kill wolves, but that’s not a legitimate argument – they don’t have a legitimate argument,” Rivard said. “That argument isn’t going to fly. Everyone understands this is reasonable, that the population has to be managed.”

    No, the argument is the method in which they want to kill wolves. Who is “everyone?” In what world is the insane crap in this bill considered “reasonable?”

    And last but not least:

    “But if anyone is worried that we’re going to shoot wolves until there are only 350 left, it will be a long time before that happens.”

    Notice the wording. It “will be a long time” meaning that is their eventual goal. This bill is absolutely nuts. I cannot believe that these people consider this bill to be “reasonable” and “conservative.” This bill is damn close to being as extreme as the “live bait” bill in Idaho.

    • Immer Treue says:


      +++“But I think so,” Rivard said. “We should be able to get it through the Assembly. And we have talked to some senators and we should be OK there. We are getting some resistance from environmentalists, but this (a hunting and trapping season) has always been part of the long-range plan when the program started – 350 was the magic number and we’re well past that. I know the DNR is counting 840-some wolves, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we have 2,000 wolves in the state.”+++

      I have the entire comment here for context. The 350 number again pops up, but the last sentence is the telling one. 2,000 wolves? Shows little faith in the DNR, and pretty much a slap in the face to all the volunteers that worked with the DNR for their population count. How much time did Rivard put in the field to come up with 2,000 wolves?

      I still would like to think saner minds will take over and modify the plan. A wolf season will occur. Let ranchers/farmers “police” their respective land. Everyone (pols) seems so compelled to just drive the population down rather than manage.

  93. william huard says:

    Now we know why wolves do not have ES protections in CA.
    The fifth and deciding vote on the Fish and game Commission is a Schwartznegger appointee who trophy hunts at the flying D ranch in Northern Idaho.
    Maybe Idaho has a position open in the Wildlife Commission after Richards is thrown out on his head. Richards would fit right in. I’m sure the Flying D ranch would give him a good recommendation

    • Salle says:


      Better check the article again, and your spelling. This event took place at the Flying “B” Ranch in Idaho…. NOT the Flying “D” Ranch in SW Montana which is owned by Ted Turner whom I think would not allow such a hunt on his property. Yes, Mr.Turner hosts bison hunts on that ranch but he also is a major proponent of wildlife conservation easements that usually prohibit such activities. I think Mr. Turner is more of an advocate for predators than not. And I’m sure that folks reading your post might be confused about that.

      • william huard says:

        You are correct Salle. It is the Flying B Ranch not Flying D Ranch. I did state the location was Northern Idaho though.

        • Salle says:

          Yeah, William, you did. That’s what got my attention. I’ve been to the Flying “D” and am aware of only ungulate hunting there.

          I forgive you… 🙂

  94. Salle says:

    Trappers, outfitters angered by ‘senseless slaughter’ of wolves

    “It’s another case of humans trying to control nature and in the process nature loses,” they said in their letter.

    • Salle says:

      “Why are they doing this? Their excuse for this slaughter is to protect the woodland caribou. Why are the caribou numbers so low in the first place? It is because of humans destroying the habitat. The real enemy of caribou are not wolves, it’s industrial development.”

    • Immer Treue says:

      +++The government’s own biologists admit that the caribou are all going to die no matter what is done as long as their habitat keeps getting destroyed by industry at the current rate. So why kill all the wolves, moose and elk in this area?”+++

      It’s always been about the habitat. Woodland caribou depend on lichen during the winter, and lichen will only grow on or under mature trees, and is very slow to regenerate after logging. So the question, and only question here is, do you want jobs or caribou, because it isn’t the wolves.

      Barren Ground caribou, though doing much better than the woodland variety. are threatened by oil and gas exploration, and other changes in habitat and land use. So once again, the question, do you want jobs or caribou, because it isn’t the wolves.

      Then one must also ask, is it altruism, or hunting opportunities that spearhead the desire to increase caribou numbers? It’s the habitat stupid! All the wolves can be killed, but if immediate steps to save, preserve, restore habitat are not made, there are not going to be any caribou for hunters or wolves.

  95. Salle says:

    Meat-eating creature of the night

    Nice to see an independent study… ?

  96. Salle says:

    A general question to those who live near the divide…

    can you see anything more than ten feet from your window?

    There is an incredibly intense snow storm going on outside my little cabin, can’t see more than 10-15ft from the window. Serious wind and heavy snowfall up around 7000ft this morning… the “snow sculpture” should be really interesting when it’s over.

  97. Savebears says:

    Just moved through my area Salle, Didn’t turn out quite as bad as I thought it would.

    • Salle says:

      From the doplar view, it looks like I’ll be in it for a spell. I was getting ready to go out and ski but I think NOT now. Hell, I might need snowshoes just to get to my vehicle so I can dig it out when it’s over!

      This stuff should have come back in Nov./Dec..

      • Nancy says:

        Had a pretty good dump & high winds here a couple of hours ago and it looks like another wall of white is making its way across the hills again.

        Glad I don’t have to go anywhere 🙂

        • Salle says:

          Good grief,

          It has finally calmed down and the snow stopped about five minutes ago. Looks like there’s about 18″ of new stuff, in the low spots, since it all got going a couple hours ago. Haven’t seen weather like that since the beginning of the 2010-2011 winter season, that one lasted for a week.

          I do have to go somewhere so now I have to make my way through a lot of snow on the ground. But at the same time, I’m glad to see it. This winter has been really sparse with the ground cover up until about the past ten days.

          Guess it’s gonna be my back country gear to get anywhere today. Better get on with it…

  98. Paul says:

    The nationwide insanity continues, this time in Minnesota. Bill to join the aerial killing fest that Alaska and Idaho specialize in:

    From the article:

    “The coyote population seems to be exploding,” said state Rep. Torrey Westrom, a sponsor of the bill. “This would be just one more way to continue the intrigue and enjoyment many people get out of hunting as well as a creative way to help control the coyote population.”

    Creative? So who wants to chime in and say that this isn’t about “thrill killing?” Why not just cut to the chase and let the military use airstrikes. These people are frickin nuts, and they are only getting more and more extreme. When is it going to end?

    • william huard says:

      “The coyote population seems to be exploding”
      A hunter told him he saw two in his backyard a few days ago……..

      • Mike says:

        Coyote’s have a control mechanism that keeps their populatinos in check…unless they are killed often. Go figure.

        I saw a coyote the other night walking down my street under the lamps. I was out of the light, and I whistled so it would know I was there. It froze under a streetlamp, pointed its ears towards me, and then bolted behind a house.

        Most of the time it’s not about coyote control, but a twisted, outdaded “need” to blow things away with a rifle, usually by chubby white guys.

        • Paul says:


          I think that what the white old farts are afraid of is that they will die off before they can pass along their great killing “traditions” to the younger generations. That is why we are seeing more and more extreme bills coming from these clowns. They admit that it isn’t about killing for food, it is killing for fun. Why do you think that states are pushing lowering the hunting age and trying to push for hunting/trapping classes to be taught in public schools like in Wisconsin? They see the number of people taking up their “sport” declining and are in an outright panic. It is the white old farts that generally have the money to fund the extreme radical groups that push the insane legislation that we are seeing. That money is the very reason why they have so much pull, and are being successful.

          This coyote killing bill, just like the Wisconsin and Idaho wolf killing bills are about as extreme as you can get. To these people they are considered “reasonable” and “sporting.” This is the kind of crap that fish and game departments try to promote as responsible “conservation.” What a contradiction. How the hell is killing things considered “conservation?” Thanks to all of the GOP majorities that were voted in across the country in 2010 the extremists that kept quiet for a few years came out of the woodwork to get all of that pent up killing urge out of their system through legislation like this. They want to revert back to the 1800’s where they think reality was like a John Wayne movie. I feel for wildlife, women, non-Chrisatians, and minorities in this country if this crap is allowed to continue.

          • Mike says:

            ++I think that what the white old farts are afraid of is that they will die off before they can pass along their great killing “traditions” to the younger generations. That is why we are seeing more and more extreme bills coming from these clowns. They admit that it isn’t about killing for food, it is killing for fun. Why do you think that states are pushing lowering the hunting age and trying to push for hunting/trapping classes to be taught in public schools like in Wisconsin? They see the number of people taking up their “sport” declining and are in an outright panic. It is the white old farts that generally have the money to fund the extreme radical groups that push the insane legislation that we are seeing. That money is the very reason why they have so much pull, and are being successful.++

            Pretty much. Hunting numbers are dropping big time. The young generation isn’t buying it. They learn about the environment on places like Wikipedia. They take trips to national parks (visits are way, way up). They know you don’t need to blow things away to enjoy the outdoors. They’re smart. They don’t buy into the bravado and the masculine facades of yesteryear. They’re comfortable in their sexuality, and others. They don’t need to “reinforce” it with nonsense.

            More and more people are leaving rural areas. This is good news for wildlife.

          • Immer Treue says:

            As more people leave rural areas, it will just open it up more for extractive industries.

        • Paul says:


          Were you able to get my email address? If not please ask Ken to send it to you.

  99. Mike says:

    ++“This would be just one more way to continue the intrigue and enjoyment many people get out of hunting as well as a creative way to help control the coyote population.”

    Enjoyment from hunting animals out of a plane? Where is Elk275 and WM on this one?

    *crickets chirping*

    • william huard says:

      Let the flat earthers keep going. They can’t help it. The news slash is that they are scaring the hell out of women, minorities, and independent voters. Can you really see a Republican controlled house in 2012? I don’t

      • Kayla says:

        Bill, I can see the Republicans retaining control over the House. It is that or returning to the house where Nancy Pelosi is in charge. This is a center right country rather then a center left country. Why is it always the extreme right or the extreme left? And I am neither! I personally am an Independant! My personal outlook is that the Republicans will take over the Senate with having control over both the House and the Senate but Obama is reelected as President.

        Just My Two Cents Worth!

        • Paul says:

          Pelosi annoys the hell out of me, but I would rather have her as speaker rather than that fake-baked orange toned clown that is there now. I am not a big fan of Obama but the opposition towards him smells to me like a bunch of angry white men pissed off that we have a black man for a president. I also don’t think that the Tea Party has the sway that it did a couple of years ago. They have shot themselves in the foot all over the country by the antics of the House and by Scott Walker, Rick Scott, and John Kasich. If these types represent what Americans really want then we are all doomed. They have made no secret that they don’t give a damn about average Americans and only serve their corporate masters. If they have their way we will all work for minimum wage and bow to the alter of those corporate masters. That is not the America that I want.

        • Immer Treue says:


          That’s the whole thing. Most of the people in the country are right/left around the middle. The politicians, far right in particular, don’t seem to get that.

        • william huard says:

          I disagree. In 2010 when the Republicans took over they were given the opportunity to do that because the economy had not progressed fast enough. Democrats in midterm elections tend to not be enthusiastic ( for whatever reason). The Republicans have focused on social issues not economic issues. The firt bill that they proposed (other than the repeal of ObamaCare) was abortion legislation. Look for large Dem turnout in 2012. That combined with increased women and minorities voting- should bode well for democrats.

          • Immer Treue says:


            Help me understand your comment. My take is that most people in this country are clumped around the middle, economically(at least for a while), and socially. There are more problems in this country than abortion, and the latest rhetoric against women demonstrates the far right “need” to keep a woman in her rightful place.

          • william huard says:

            I agree with you. My last comment was in response to Kayla’s response to me. Our posts are 2 minutes apart- how fast do you think I can type?
            Believe it or not, other than environmental/animal issues-I am pretty much down the middle too.
            There is no such thing as moderate in politics today.

          • Immer Treue says:


    • Paul says:

      I missed this gem from the article:

      “Westrom said people have been telling him for years how much fun they had hunting wolves from aircraft in the 1960s and 1970s.
      “I want to bring back something that younger generations have never had the chance to experience,” said Westrom, from Elbow Lake.”

      • Paul says:

        Why not bring back slavery while they are at it as the younger generation never got to experience those “good ole days?”

        • Paul says:

          I hope that Suder and Rivard are not paying attention to this article in Wisconsin. This type of thing sound like it would be right up their alley for more “reasonable” measures to kill wolves.

        • Mike says:

          I get emails from people all the time telling me how enjoyable it was to stone women who were accused of being witches. Man, we really should bring that back. People had so much fun!

          We takin’ over the dance floor, putting the fun back into killin’

          Shoot your rifles in the sky, shoot your rifles in the sky

        • Salle says:

          …in case you hadn’t noticed, Paul, they’ve been working real hard at it for the last 22 months… :]

          • Paul says:


            Believe me I have noticed. Shouldn’t a mental evaluation be warranted for even suggesting crap like this? “It’s just good ole fun shootin’ those song doggies from them there flying machines. It’s a tradition.” Sick bastards.

            I am still waiting for someone to come on here and justify this. Anyone????

      • Mike says:

        ++“Westrom said people have been telling him for years how much fun they had hunting wolves from aircraft in the 1960s and 1970s.
        “I want to bring back something that younger generations have never had the chance to experience,” said Westrom, from Elbow Lake.”


        Fat, lazy trash.

  100. Mal Adapted says:

    Good grief! Oregon watches Idaho experience as wolves reduce elk population.

    Idaho elk numbers have fallen from 125,000 to 103,000 since about 1997 to the dismay of hunters, professional big game outfitters and small businesses that depend on seasonal revenues from hunters.

    Habitat changes and heavy feeding by bears and cougars spurred the elk decline before wolves came on the scene, but state and federal wildlife research now links the continued drop in some areas to the increased activity of wolves, said Craig White, an Idaho Department of Fish and Game biologist in Boise.

    I’d like to see some expert, independent analysis of that research.

    • Mike says:

      Interesting that only 8% of Oregon residents hunt, and only 17% of Idaho residents.

      They truly are cry babies.

    • Paul says:

      I would like to see that too. This article seems to rely a little too much on the party line from IDFG and the resident wolf haters.

  101. CodyCoyote says:

    Meanwhile, Wyoming elk numbers are still climbing , in spite of wolves, climate change, habitat, fires, diseases…whatever.

    The statewide population of elk is nearly 30 percent above objective.

    • william huard says:

      Those outfitters in Wyoming sure have the Governor’s ear concerning those game herds…..

  102. Rita K. Sharpe says:

    [] I am not good on the computer,but I will give it a try.

  103. Paul says:

    One of the “co-authors” of the Wisconsin wolf killing bill caught on camera voting for absent Assembly members:

    This Kleefisch(more like clownfish)guy is a real piece of work. His wife is the Lt. Governor who is about to be recalled along with Walker. He is also the one pushing to have open season on sandhill cranes in Wisconsin. Word is he never met an animal that he didn’t want to kill. I guess the rules apply to the rest of us, but not him. How can this not be fraud? How do corrupt clowns like this guy and Siddoway keep getting elected to power in this country?

  104. Salle says:

    Does the U.S. Have a Legal Responsibility to Stop Climate Change?

    Somebody needs to give these kids a gold star and some scholarships.

    • Doryfun says:


      How about two gold stars! Apparently not all kids are techonoligcally addicted and afflicted with “nature deficit disorder,” thus are acting on behalf of the 7th generation thinking, that their parents generation (us) should be doing.

      Sad as it may be, the legal pit is where the major battles happen for real world consequences to our planet. So it is good to see some in the “Imatter” generation recognizing such, at an early age.

      “Treat the earth well.
      It was not given to you by your parents,
      it was loaned to you by your children.
      We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children.” – Ancient Indian Proverb.

    • Salle says:


      Good Grief. This is the kind of thing that makes me feel ashamed of my species. I might have come to this world as a human but things like this article imparts only makes me feel more resolute about the concept that we humans are the ones who need to be booted off the planet.

      • Doryfun says:

        Nancy & Salle,

        I hate reading this kind of stuff. Was going to comment earlier, but it is so disgusting, I just didn’t want to think about it.

        It is hard to see the good in human behavior when so much of this kind of crap is going on.

        Dam it.

  105. Salle says:

    Stealing State Parks

    “In one of the saddest signs of the times, this message is popping up all across the country as governors and legislators are cutting off funds (and shutting off access) to one of the finest, most popular assets owned by the people of our country: state parks.”

  106. Salle says:

    Should Wyoming Build an Aircraft Carrier?

    Talk about being way out there…

  107. Salle says:

    Something tells me that the governator of my state is buying into the “we need more oil” bull and is obviously looking forward to the next election where the Kochheads will likely be funding the rest of his political life with a big pay-off – starting last year.

    Montana’s governor says ‘jackasses’ delayed Keystone, but pipeline will be built

    Schweitzer is so confident that the pipeline will go ahead, he’s willing to put his money where his mouth is.

    “It’s coming through. I have $100 burning a hole in my pocket that I will bet you that it gets built,” he said in his office in Helena, Mont.

  108. jon says:

    Petition Filed to Protect Gray Wolves Under California Endangered Species Act

  109. jon says:

    “The problem as I see it is that hunters are looking for a simple answer — “kill all the predators, and we will have more game!” — to a complex problem of why mule deer populations are crashing. The reality is that there are no simple answers.”

    • Doryfun says:

      Regarding the Keystone Pipeline, check this out:

      “There were two scientific studies this week that set the ongoing Keystone pipeline battle in sharp relief.

      One was a reminder of just how crucial this fight is. A secret report delivered to the Canadian government’s chief bureaucrat showed that changes in tarsands mining methods, which the industry claimed reduced the amount of carbon emissions, were actually “three times as emissions intensive” and that damage to the environment would be both “significant” and “irreversible.”

      Etc. Etc.

  110. TetonBadger says:

    Oh no! Old White is one my very favorites I have enjoyed watching him for so long, I had hoped he would at his old age (7) not love long enough to see people as his enemy, I was wrong. He is one locally our biggest fellows at 115 lbs last weigh in. The black he has been with this breeding season is another favorite of mine, very, very sad they never hurt anyone- I am just sick.

  111. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Russian tigers to take their stripes to Iran
    “ Iran’s Caspian tiger population has been all but wiped out by hunters, so local preservation specialists chose the Amur tiger as a replacement as it is genetically close to the domestic big cat”.

  112. Peter Kiermeir says:

    356 leopard deaths in India in 365 days
    India is losing its leopards faster than any other wild cat.

  113. Nancy says:

    Some excitement in Kalispell

    • Salle says:

      And now the “screaming” shall commence…

    • Alan says:

      “Sheriff’s deputies, Kalispell Police and FWP officials searched for a wolf in Kalispell on Saturday after receiving several calls reporting sightings.”
      Hmmmm! Wonder why they didn’t call out the National Guard?

      • Salle says:

        Aside from being part of the govmint, they probably would except I’m sure there’ll be a possey out before the end of the week… but first, I’d be willing to wager that they’re hoping some kid will be bitten so they can really get their dander up before going out on the snowmobile raid from hell.

      • JEFF E says:

        It was fortunate that some kid was not killed… a hail of gunfire.

    • Immer Treue says:

      I remember as a younger kid, 6 or 7ish and I read Aesop’s fables. I’ve considered picking up the book again for easy reading. Really wonderful stuff in it in terms of stories being short with easy to understand morals and connections to real life.

      • Doryfun says:


        I have a copy of that Thanks for reminding me about it, as I always did enjoy it, so should check it out again.

        • Salle says:

          I once acquired a copy of Aesop’s Fables but when I sold everything to move to where I am now, I donated the numbered, first print book to an organization I was friendly with for them to auction off for funds. It was in great condition but it didn’t work with my criteria for dematerializing my life so I thought that donating it in that way was best for all. I hope they got some serious cash for it.

          I think I’ll get a newer copy for my tiny residual library, it was one of my favorite books as a child.

          It’s really a telling sign that our social situation is showing signs of having already willingly given up on the idea of wildlife and nondomesticated animals. I think mother nature is getting ready to really give us what’s coming to us.

          • Immer Treue says:

            “I think mother nature is getting ready to really give us what’s coming to us.”

            I think you are right.

    • Mike says:

      Not in my books.

  114. Cindy says:

    Here we go:( I was really hoping these two wolves would stay out of Jackson.

    • Mike says:

      What an absolute shame that people put their houses there, defacing one of the finest mountain ranges in the world. As much as I love Teton, it never feels quite wild to me with the airport and the tract housing at the base of the range.

      Wolves die because of slob people.

      • Harley says:

        Yeah. People need to stay in the cities where they belong. Damn people. What right do they have to mess up nature like that? Slobs. All of them. Disgraceful. They are probably descendents of hunters.

        • Mike says:

          Harley –

          As gas prices skyrocket, people will be forced to move back to large urban centers. I don’t think this will be a bad thing for biodiversity.

          That build-up around Teton really is unsettling. Then again, these kinds of perceptions are made by people who think big picture, not of immediate self-gratification.

        • Mike says:

          Do you think setting up an elk farm amongst the subidivisions is the fault of the wolves?

          • JB says:


            It isn’t a matter of assigning blame. I suspect you would get no disagreement here that wildlife would be better off were Jackson Hole not filled with people. The problem is what to do about the increased risk associated with park animals showing up in residential areas?

            In this case, given the volatility of the wolf issue and the potential for political backlash were someone to get injured, Mike (Jimenez) made what I believe to the the right call.

            Something to consider: After a 19-year old woman was killed by coyotes in Nova Scotia in 2009, a number of Canadian provinces passed bounties on coyotes. Livestock producers had been pushing for bounties for years, but had been unable to get the job done. So in 2010, in Saskatchewan along more than 70,000 coyotes were killed–arguably because of the one incident in Nova Scotia. So before you jump to criticize, pause and consider how people might respond were something similar to happen with wolves in the NRMs.

            • Mike says:

              ++It isn’t a matter of assigning blame. ++

              Sure it is. To resolve situations, you find the party at fault, then adjust accordingly. There’s no other way to solve problems.

              I suspect you would get no disagreement here that wildlife would be better off were Jackson Hole not filled with people. The problem is what to do about the increased risk associated with park animals showing up in residential areas? ++

              These people decided to move right on top of a national park. There should be a different set of rules for these people and the wildlife, like a contestant on Fear Factor who has to sign away a ton of papers saying he/she won’t sue. They moved right next to wolves and bears, in one of the most well-known national parks in the world, period. That is not the fault of the animal.

              In this case, given the volatility of the wolf issue and the potential for political backlash were someone to get injured, Mike (Jimenez) made what I believe to the the right call. ++

              I don’t buy it. It’s not up to him to play god. You don’t kill an animal that has done nothing wrong, especially one that survives in very low numbers in Wyoming.

              ++Something to consider: After a 19-year old woman was killed by coyotes in Nova Scotia in 2009, a number of Canadian provinces passed bounties on coyotes. Livestock producers had been pushing for bounties for years, but had been unable to get the job done. So in 2010, in Saskatchewan along more than 70,000 coyotes were killed–arguably because of the one incident in Nova Scotia. So before you jump to criticize, pause and consider how people might respond were something similar to happen with wolves in the NRMs.++

              That’s a valid point, but it’s only politics, not ethics. You don’t take something’s life that hasn’t done anything wrong. It may not be politically satisfactory, but what is? We have to live by a moral and ethical code, because that’s all we have. Countries rise and fall. Political systems crumble. Ethics have to be at the core of everything we do because that is all the remains in the end.

          • WM says:

            ++Do you think setting up an elk farm amongst the subidivisions is the fault of the wolves?++

            The feeding station exists because there is no winter range. Wolves have a daily caloric requirement for survival which will be satisfied at lowest risk ot them, and least caloric expenditure.

            You can thank the federal government for both the lack of winter range for elk and the placement of the feeding station. The people came because of the amenities. The wolves came because of yet another act of the federal government. Now the federal, state, and local governments have yet another challenge to deal with – balancing safety against wildlife values some prefer. Not a value judgment. Just facts meeting policy issues.

            Mike, other than playing arrogant armchair general, you do you have an implementable solution?

          • Savebears says:

            You do realize, no matter where you live, it was once wilderness? Right? and it was not all that long ago!

    • Nancy says:

      “We’re looking at a population that is fully recovered and expanding,” he said. “We’re talking three or four wolves out of 230.”

      Do NOTHING wrong and still get targeted for “removal”

      I suppose the 1%, who’ve made Jackson Hole what it is today (pave paradise) can no longer recall how wild & beautiful the area once was.

  115. Peter Kiermeir says:

    Cat killer no good for California commission
    Daniel Richards, president of the California Fish and Game Commission, is facing an onslaught of criticism after he was snapped showing off a dead mountain lion he shot in Idaho. Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom is the latest to demand his resignation.

  116. WM says:

    Organ Pipe National Monument (cactus and desert vistas are the attractions). National Park Serice Rangers carry M-14’s for protection of themselves and visitors. Park visitation, drug running and illegal immigration collide.

    • JB says:

      Organ Pipe is where my friend, a park ranger, was killed in August of 2002 by Mexican drug dealers. The visitor center is now named in his honor. Those rangers need all of the help they can get.

  117. Bob Caesar says:


    If you live in wildlife friendly Jackson Hole, Wyoming and want to take out a predator simply report it to any public “official”.

    A few weeks ago it cost us four cougars, now a couple of wolves. Wolves that are traveling back and forth along the Snake river probably to the Game & Fish elk feedlot south of town.

    Here’s the article:

    • Harley says:

      Why would they make the decision to kill them instead of relocate?

      I think that removal of predators near housing developments is probably a wise idea to avoid what is feared by a lot of people who are against wolves. It’s setting the wolves up for failure when we know they will act like wolves act. Imagine the reaction if something did happen, some adverse contact with a wolf. It would not be good. I do however wish there was a non lethal way of solving the problem.

      • Nancy says:

        “I do however wish there was a non lethal way of solving the problem”

        Many of us here wish that too Harley but it requires communities/people living around wildlife, to be more tuned in.

        What is that wolf, coyote, cougar, bear, doing in your backyard? And what has our species done to their neighborhoods to cause such a shift in their lives?

    • Kayla says:

      Bob, Now I hear what you are saying. I personally live in Jackson and I love how all the wildlife that is all around. But I do NOT get at all this attitude of so many others that are here and these authorities. This community seems to pride itself on their environmentalism but in so many other ways are not wildlife friendly and such hyprocrites. As for myself, anymore I refuse to report my wildlife sightings to the public officials of what might be done. Guess how many here are just such wussies it seems. I walk down the street and one Surbuban and SUV passes me one after another where seemingly how few can walk or ride their bikes. I go for a walk nearby in the woods and everyone is walking their pet dogs. But one predator shows up nearby and they want to get rid of it. Freaking Why??? I do not get it. If these Local Idiots here can not live with the wildlife nearby then WHY do they freaking live here? This so much saddens me Bigtime in them wanting to remove these wolves.

      • Immer