Dec. 17, 2015 edition-

It is time to create a new page of “Interesting Wildlife News.” Please put your wildlife news in the comments below. Do not post copyrighted material.

Here is the link to the “old” wildlife news of December 17, 2015.

North Trapper Peak. Bitterroots. Copyright Ralph Maughan

North Trapper Peak. Bitterroots. Copyright Ralph Maughan

About The Author

Ralph Maughan

Dr. Ralph Maughan is professor emeritus of political science at Idaho State University. He was a Western Watersheds Project Board Member off and on for many years, and was also its President for several years. For a long time he produced Ralph Maughan's Wolf Report. He was a founder of the Greater Yellowstone Coalition. He and Jackie Johnson Maughan wrote three editions of "Hiking Idaho." He also wrote "Beyond the Tetons" and "Backpacking Wyoming's Teton and Washakie Wilderness." He created and is the administrator of The Wildlife News.

491 Responses to Do you have some interesting wildlife news? Dec. 17, 2015 edition.

  1. Ralph Maughan says:

    Larry Thorngreen,

    Thank you. Folks seem to forget about the herd in the Henry Mountains, a place not like Yellowstone, but with the bison doing well and conserving the genetic heritage from Yellowstone Park.

    Interesting article on the Utah Bison, cows and Jackrabbits.

  3. Saturday, December 12, 2015


  4. rork says:
    was a pretty interesting article about CWD. A new dissertation (that I haven’t read). Mostly cool for me cause it reviewed (and points to) knowledge about the polymophisms in the PRNP gene that cause variation in susceptibility. You expect the resistant genotypes to increase. The resistant elk variant might be more resistant than I knew, but data on homozygotes is rare, cause that allele is damn rare (2% LL homozygotes) – the only “LL” homozygous elk in one study seems OK after 13 years of exposure. It will take many decades for that allele to become common. There’s more data about the deer polymorphism.

    • Ralph Maughan says:

      To everyone,

      Everyone should be sure to read the comments to this article in This is because University of Wyoming doctoral student Melia DeVivo (who the

      article is partly about) was quoted as saying, “Having more predators might not help limit CWD’s spread.

      ‘We don’t know a whole lot about how or if they could even regulate the disease,’ DeVivo said. ‘We don’t know what their impact would be.’

      Researchers are investigating whether predators might even be an agent in the spread of Chronic Wasting Disease. The malformed prion can survive in soil and
      can be transported in plants and feed.

      ‘Are they [predators] somehow contributing to the spread?’ DeVivo asked. ‘Maybe prions can pass through their system. While they key in on weak and sick, they

      can still kill [healthy] animals. I don’t think we know enough to start using predators as a management tool for this disease, basically.”
      – – –
      The article provides no evidence for this — that cougar and wolves do not help stop the spread of CWD.

      However, the comments to the article present scientific papers that do say that predators probably help retard CWD.

      Speaking of animal agents that might spread CWD, what about the omnipresent cattle on the range?

      • rork says:

        Help retard CWD in theory. That’s not a criticism – it makes perfect sense that could hardly be otherwise. I think we many have discussed the important Wilson 2011 paper here ( before. Diseased ungulates of are gonna be easier targets, and the article mentions that is true of human hunters too, and that’s not just in theory, that’s in the data. I do not intend that as an advertisement for human hunting. I’m skeptical about the cows, but maybe possible. I have read people worried more about birds (crow and turkey vulture) – partly cause they can travel farther than cow before they poop.

        • rork says:

          I should have added the obvious: crow and vulture eat the meat (not by accident) and might carry more prion than a cow.
          Also obvious: It’s hunters (like me) that are the much larger danger, moving carcasses. We had a discarded mule deer found in MI, and a bunch of folks illegal bringing whole deer back from places with CWD. We try to educate hunters and others, but some don’t read anything, or don’t want the hassle of butchering while still in the state they traveled to hunt in. Some don’t butcher themselves, and then have troubles waiting for the hired shop to finish before they must travel home, so they bring the whole thing back.

          • Elk375 says:

            Maybe the butcher shops are full up and not taking anymore animals for some days. I was with a friend this fall who delivered a deer to the processors and two hunters from California were doing the same. One of the hunters last year took a whole deer back to California and was fined $350 and had the deer confiscated.

          • Ralph Maughan says:


            Here is the map of the geographically defined outbreaks. However, it seems to me that new infections that do not spread geographically are almost all private deer and elk farms/shooting preserves.

      • TC says:

        Melia more accurately likely meant predators may not do much to control CWD in an area with such a high prevalence as her study site. Horse is outta the barn and environmental contamination is probably too high to make much of a difference. Type of predator also may have some role – coursing vs. ambush/stalking, especially at the interface between no disease and disease just making inroads. Cattle likely have little to do with it – they’re not naturally susceptible (so far), and I suppose prions might move through them transiently, but only if they’re in a contaminated environment to begin with.

    • Barb Rupers says:

      Some maps and information on CWD spread in Wyoming and another article on the upcoming bison management plan changes at:

    • Patrick says:

      The species barrier to transmission of prion agents is really pretty high. Not only does the animal (or human) have to eat enough of the prion agent to allow it convert its own prion protein from normal to misfolded, and not get cleared in the process, but the animal has to live long enough for the misfolded protein to accumulate to sufficient levels to pass it on to another of its kind. Even in experimental systems using lab animals, the process often requires multiple passages. Not impossible, just difficult and relatively unlikely between relatively short lived creatures such as birds and ungulates, and even other predators.

  5. Mareks Vilkins says:

    This is a gem:

    Story about my beloved artist Lou Reed, his soulmate Laurie Anderson, their Buddhist teacher and the artististic creativity of their rat terrier Lolabelle – as seen through lenses of love, death and language.

    “the film makes surprising and darkly comic twists, effortlessly recasting the ordinary as the profound. We learn that in her mature age, Lolabelle went blind and learnt to paw-paint, sculpt, and to play piano. One of the film’s most oddly moving scenes is of Lolabelle’s paws banging against the keys as she barks, rhythmically. Later, Lolabelle passes away and Anderson creates a series of charcoal drawings to chart her 49-day journey through the Bardo, the limbo-like space outlined in The Tibetan Book of the Dead where the mind dissolves before being re-born.”

    • Ida Lupines says:

      Isn’t that something. My 18.75 year-old Siamese has just been diagnosed with a fatal disease. She’s diabetic too, has a heart murmur, and asthma. We’re going to make her as loved as possible. 🙂

      • Mareks Vilkins says:

        Siamese are kinky even by cat’s standard 😉

      • Kathleen says:

        I’m very sorry to hear this, Ida, though she has certainly used up most of her lives by now. A lucky cat she is, to have such good, attentive, and loving care for such a long time and with so many ailments.

        • Ida Lupines says:

          Ha! She has, and she’s still going strong for now. Thank you. 🙂

          It’s been a learning experience, how to give insulin, fluids, and she responds like a trooper. She’s quite a cat. We’ll be devastated when her time comes, but knowing we had her for 19 years or so (since she was 9 weeks old!) makes us feel better.

          • Nancy says:

            Throw a stick, and the servile dog wheezes and
            pants and stumbles to bring it to you. Do the same before a cat, and he
            will eye you with coolly polite and somewhat bored amusement. And just
            as inferior people prefer the inferior animal which scampers excitedly
            because someone else wants something, so do superior people respect the
            superior animal which lives its own life and knows that the puerile
            stick-throwings of alien bipeds are none of its business and beneath its
            notice. The dog barks and begs and tumbles to amuse you when you crack
            the whip. That pleases a meekness-loving peasant who relishes a stimulus
            to his self importance. The cat, on the other hand, charms you into
            playing for its benefit when it wishes to be amused; making you rush
            about the room with a paper on a string when it feels like exercise, but
            refusing all your attempts to make it play when it is not in the
            humour. That is personality and individuality and self-respect — the
            calm mastery of a being whose life is its own and not yours — and the
            superior person recognises and appreciates this because he too is a free
            soul whose position is assured, and whose only law is his own heritage
            and aesthetic sense.”
            -H.P Lovecraft


      • JB says:

        Sorry to hear this, Ida. (I don’t post much anymore, but still monitor.)

    • Immer Treue says:

      Here here for Mr. Reed!

    • Louise Kane says:

      Marks its somehow very appropriate that you would love Lou Reed – me too

      walk on the wild side and its sax still so cool

  6. Gary Humbard says:

    Some very interesting information on GYE grizzlies and the unfortunate lack of visitor compliance regarding safety.

  7. Immer Treue says:

    Yukon man convicted of killing two wolves.

  8. Gary Humbard says:

    You can call me puma, mountain lion, catamount or cougar, but just don’t call me Journey.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      Wow. 🙁 Very thought provoking. What risks do we choose to live with, and what we do not – and is there really a rhyme or reason to it. Scary thinking of the future for wildlife.

  9. Ida Lupines says:

    California, please don’t disappoint. 50-75 wolves? You’ve got to be kidding:

  10. Louise Kane says:

    kudos to Predator Defense, Wild earth Guardians, Cascadia Wildlands, Western Environmental Law Center et al

    • Ida Lupines says:

      Good. Wolves no sooner get delisted than they have to face a killing onslaught. If the states plan to take over management of wildlife, then they can’t expect Federal help, and the unaccountable Wildlife Services needs to gtfo. Can’t have it both ways.

      Happy Winter Solstice!

    • rork says:

      Does that mean nobody whatsoever can kill a wolf, no matter what (at least until they straighten it out)?
      My usual complaint about courts: They tell you it’s wrong, but they don’t tell you what’s right, or how to fix it. You can just try again, and see if they like that, perhaps years later. I am in no way defending wildlife services. I am asking what the courts, or people, will accept as sufficient grounds for wolf killing in a place that, though imperfect, is expected to make pretty many wolves (personal opinion, not fact). I am worried that “no excuse is good enough” will alienate people who aren’t really anti-wolf otherwise, though I know it’s not the court’s problem to decide what is good, only what is legal. More learned thoughts appreciated.
      I have not been able to follow how often lethal action is being taken in W great lakes by wildlife services.

      • Ida Lupines says:

        Does that mean nobody whatsoever can kill a wolf, no matter what (at least until they straighten it out)?

        It would seem to me that this will never be a reality. There will always be poachers and the secretive killers. The ranchers already have the ability to shoot a wolf who threatens their livestock, in some cases only for a perceived threat. State F&W comes in to aerial gun packs down in some cases. The McKittrick rule allows for ‘mistaken identity’ killings. Recreational killers have their hunting season. So why do we need Wildlife Services, and escalated killing to boot? There really isn’t anything else that needs to be said. It’s been stated over and over again, and it is law in Western states already.

        How much more do we have to kill? Society should be evolving in the way it treats its ever- diminishing wildlife and wildlands? Why is it so frightening not to be able to kill a wolf?

        In CA, one of the excuses for keeping a token wolf population is the 38 million humans. I don’t think wolves will risk the dangers of LA or SF!

        It’s been shown that being able to kill a wolf doesn’t lead to more acceptance. Wolves need to be protected from that. The killing remains the same regardless of the alienation factor.

        • Ida Lupines says:

          California already has mountain lions and coyotes. Why the irrational fear of wolves? Ranching interests? Ranchers and F&W let Tule elk die of thirst behind fences so they could not get to water.

        • rork says:

          I reviewed a bit – I had temporarily forgotten about delisting in the eastern 1/3rd. I thought ranchers needed permits there even if witnessing livestock attacks, and the state can act there too, but there is certainly no hunting season. I suppose the role of Wildlife Services is affected in the western 2/3rds – I could still use a review article. Also, sometimes it can either be them or someone else and it doesn’t matter. Deer in Ann Arbor will be shot by USDA WS – it’s merely convenience, since they have the better trained people.
          It’s not “frightening” to have no ability to kill offending wolves, I questioned whether it is smart.

          PS: I see Louise’s linked article stoops to citing the Wielgus 2014 paper, which now has some claims about model parsimony in the comments that were not at all demonstrated, and seem doubtful.

  11. Kathleen says:

    “After Cecil furor, US aims to protect lions through Endangered Species Act”

    African lions will be listed as both ENDANGERED (central & West Africa) and threatened under the U.S. Endangered Species Act, according to the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Svc.

  12. Gary Humbard says:

    Record 59 grizzlies were killed in GYE during 2015. Of course, the only winners in lawsuits are attorneys and will not save the great bear and wolves. Protecting the right habitat, educating the public how to live with them and truly appreciating their value to the landscape will ultimately decide their fate.

    • rork says:

      Thanks. Visiting the linked-to table was interesting. I haven’t noticed that writer much until lately (Angus Thuermer) – seems good.

  13. Yvette says:

    It looks like a popular female mountain lion has been felled by the sport hunter’s bullet. She crossed international boundaries and traveled over 450 miles, which is unusual for a female. Killed in America. What I didn’t realize is how many are killed every year, about 3,000. Sport and entertainment.

  14. Gary Humbard says:

    Not quite “Home on the Range” but a good step forward regarding bison roaming outside Yellowstone NP.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      Great news!!!! 🙂

      • Ida Lupines says:

        So don’t go shouting “Home on the Range” all the way to Kalispell quite yet.

        🙂 Still it is ‘monumental’, as the article says. Thank you Governor Bullock, it is a tremendous holiday gift.

        • Nancy says:

          Of course a rebuttal:

          “So these claims are not unfounded, but they’re not founded on much anymore. Indeed, the environmental assessment gauging whether to let bison roam year-round in Montana notes that since the IBMP was enacted in 2000, several important changes occurred in both brucellosis knowledge and land use. Elk, it is believed, are far more likely to transmit brucellosis to cattle than bison. In addition, there are fewer cattle in the places where bison will be allowed to roam”

  15. rork says: is “Natural and experimental tests of trophic cascades: gray wolves and white-tailed deer in a Great Lakes forest.” (I hope it is visible to all but can’t tell from where I am now.) It’s about effects on plants like maple saplings, which may excite me more than you – that’s the “trophic cascade”. They make exclosures and non-exclosed matched plots in areas of high and low wolf density, that is 4 treatments. They have some trouble with statistics, but find a big difference between the matched plots in low wolf density areas, but almost none in high-wolf plots (but didn’t test interactions, though I suspect they knew how, so maybe p was not so small – as a reviewer I would have made them cough up that result). They give reasonable arguments that it’s not directly caused by deer being killed by wolves, but rather visiting their pack’s area less, spending less time nearby when they do visit, and spending even less of what time they do spend there eating (measured by cameras). A pleasant experimental design, not hard to read, expected results obtained. Haven’t seen any journalist write it up – something about “wolves recover plants favored by deer” might be the hook (but might go beyond what today’s paper actually found).

    • Mareks Vilkins says:

      only abstract is available:

      “in areas of high wolf use, deer were 62 % less dense, visit duration was reduced by 82 %, and percentage of time spent foraging was reduced by 43 %; in addition, the proportion of saplings browsed was nearly sevenfold less. Average maple (Acer spp.) sapling height and forb species richness increased 137 and 117 % in areas of high versus low wolf use, respectively. The results of the exclosure experiments revealed that the negative impacts of deer on sapling growth and forb species richness became negligible in high wolf use areas. We conclude that wolves are likely generating trophic cascades which benefit maples and rare forbs through trait-mediated effects on deer herbivory, not through direct predation kills.”

    • JB says:

      Hmm…I thought Mech suggested wolves would never reach densities high enough to cause trophic cascades outside of a National Park?

      Wait…let me find it…aha!

      “To the extent that wolves in National Parks do influence lower trophic levels, for them to do so outside of parks, their population would have to reach natural densities for long periods. Because wolf populations will almost always be managed outside of National Parks (Mech, 1995; Fritts et al., 2003; Boitani, 2003), their densities will probably never consistently reach the densities of wolves in National Parks, however.” (Mech, 2012, Biological Conservation 150: 143–149).

      I see, so he’s suggesting there will not be trophic cascades outside of National Parks because hunting (i.e., management) will likely prevent them from reaching ecologically relevant densities. But since wolves were listed during the study period, I suppose it’s not fair to read too much into this.

      But wait; hold on a second! I seem to recall something along these lines also appeared in that recent letter that Mech co-authored that called for delisting wolves in the Great Lakes? Give me second.. Yep, here it is:

      “There is no scientific evidence that wolf harvest systems established in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan have or would reduce wolves’ ecological benefits in the areas where wolves have recovered.”

      Well gosh, now I’m really confused. I thought he said that wolf hunting would prevent wolves from reaching densities where they initiate a trophic cascade (the source of those “ecological benefits”)? Now he’s saying there’s no scientific evidence to suggest that hunting will actually have that effect?


      • rork says:

        I have to watch that I don’t argue things both ways myself. Some days I’m arguing wolves (or coyotes) don’t knock the deer down very much, other times I’m wanting folks to leave predators alone because I’m hoping they will knock the deer down (more than mere hygienic effects, or trophic cascades due to behavior changes in ungulates). I point it out cause allot of us may be in that bind, and perhaps cause I want help.
        As for Mech, it seems that wolves not reaching useful densities was simply wrong. Perhaps direct effects of reduced deer is still uncertain (in western great lakes anyway), and I expect he underestimated behavior effects.

      • rork says:

        I don’t criticize these two thoughts:
        1) Stay calm deer hunters, the wolves will not annihilate the deer.
        2) Stay calm wolf lovers, limited wolf hunting will not annihilate the wolves.
        That’s nowhere saying wolf hunting is good though.

        • JB says:

          I think it would be fair to say (and I don’t believe this would be a controversial statement among scientists) that wolves *can* reduce ungulate populations under certain conditions (like when they’ve overshot their carrying capacity). Evidence for the behavioral (“landscape of fear”) hypothesis, to my knowledge, is a bit more tentative. However, I would not be surprised to find the behavioral response is wide-spread, but whether there are trickle-down trophic effects is also conditional (on things like weather).

          I have yet to figure out why conditional effects are so hard for these scientists to explain? Seems like we could reduce a lot of confusion and animosity (and temper expectations) if people understood that we’re not talking about absolutes.

      • Mareks Vilkins says:

        +1 JB

        • Mareks Vilkins says:

          for Mech it is idiosyncratic that he at all times will emphasize MINIMAL requirements for wolf viability (genetics, disperasl etc) while refusing the same criteria for ungulate populations or livestock depredation.

          In brief, Mech will support legal thresholds for wolves [below 100-150 wolves or 10-15 breeding pairs to be re-listed in the NRM] as the limit of social carrying capacity.

          I mean, mantra “population matters; individuals – don’t” applies only to wolves, not hunters or ranchers

          • Mareks Vilkins says:

            As few as 1-2 immigrants per generation (~5 years) can be sufficient to minimize effects of inbreeding on wolf populations (Vila et al. 2003, Liberg 2005)

            and this kind of info Mech (and hunters, ranchers) will use to justify legal thresholds for wolf re-listing

            it’s so easy to use Authority figure to scientifically justify any kind of nonsense

  16. Immer Treue says:

    Spent the greater part of the last three days stapling paper flags on the growth leaders of all the young white pine I come across.

    ma’iingan used to say that deer were a forests worst nightmare. Young maples are already nubbed. Could use a few more wolves to keep the deer moving. If only they’d eat balsam.

    • rork says:

      “I now suspect that just as a deer herd lives in mortal fear of its wolves, so does a mountain live in mortal fear of its deer.” – Saint Aldo, as almost all of us know, from the famous story where he kills a wolf. Even 75 years ago, we were warned.
      Near me, white cedar less than 25 years old do not exist (except in cages). Nothing to staple.
      “Too many deer is terrible for the land, and terrible for deer.” – me.

    • Outdoorfunnut says:

      I have had those little papers nibbled up by the deer around here. That was until I kept them in a sandwich bag filled with the papers, a spoon of black pepper and dried jalapeno, wear rubber gloves.

      Happy to say that I don’t need to do any this year, the ones that do get nibbled will still make it. We do have cedar & maple here that make it past the deer.

      Merry Christmas

    • Barb Rupers says:

      Immer, How goes the marking of the white pine in your north country?

      I am missing your comments.

      • Outdoorfunnut says:

        Barb, I think you’re asking Immer about her “stapling paper flags” on white pines comment above. This is done on the very top growth of the youngling pines to prevent the deer from eating the most important “bud” on the young tree. With the pine its the very top bud/growth which expands into another foot or so in the upcoming year. Once past the deer it no longer needs to be done. I have done quite a bit of this with the white pine I have planted over the years. The difference I noted was that I keep my little papers in a plastic bag with black pepper and dried hot peppers. They have ate the paper and all on me in the past as to why I switched to the peppered ones. At 50 deer per square mile I still didn’t need to do this with all the trees. I have noticed that EVEN IF the deer get that bud they will still find a way to regrow the leader. Most of the trees that were set back by the deer (which is natural) have caught back up with the non-nibbled trees. I think some studies may say that root system is the biggest determination as to tree growth.

  17. Kathleen says:

    It used to be a rhetorical question: How did the tiger get his stripes? Now comes a mathematical equation “to identify what variables control stripe formation in living things.”

    This reminds me of the Henry Beston quote…”man in civilization surveys the creature through the glass of his knowledge and sees thereby a feather magnified and the whole image in distortion.” Read this beautiful quote in its entirety and/or view it set to slides here:

    • Mareks Vilkins says:

      We need another and a wiser and perhaps a more mystical concept of animals.

      or in simple English: Beauty

      Beauty will help to raise awareness about wildlife among city dwellers / kids / new generation. People want Story / Narrative not just simple Biology 101 – it will help to reconnect with Indigenous mythology as well.

      and the concept of ‘Mindfulness’ in Buddhism

      • Mareks Vilkins says:

        Compare Christian religious bureaucrats spreading around their version of Jesus’s teaching vs Russian Orthodox iconography which emphasises the message of Kindness beyond conceptual thinking/straightjacket

        I mean, those paintings have more in common with Jesus’s message than with religious Establishment.
        And that in part explains stereotype about Russian ‘irrationality’

        • Mareks Vilkins says:


          “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?”

          Matthew 5:45-46

          that message applies to hunters&ranchers who consider wolf or any other large predator as their mortal enemy to be killed on spot (using McKittrick’s ruse)

          • Harley says:

            Actually, I think that passage applies to humans, not animals. So if you want to get that passage in the correct context, hunters and ranchers should be praying for conversationalists.

            • Outdoorfunnut says:

              Harley, Merry Christmas. I think you are right. Mareks, Kathleen, I pray for you.

              • Mareks Vilkins says:

                the same to you

                • Mareks Vilkins says:

                  if you have some inconvenience with Jesus maybe a little help from Keith Richards will do the trick:

                  Keith Richards’s book “Life” p.155 (impressions from the Stones first US tour):

                  “There was the stark thing you discovered about America – it was civilized round the edges, but fifty miles inland from any major American city, whether it was New York, Chicago, LA or Washington, you really did go into another world. In Nebraska and places like that we got used to them saying, “Hello, girls.” We just ignored it. At the same time they felt threatened by us, because their wives were looking at us and going, “That’s interesting.” Not what they were used to every bloody day, not some beer-swilling redneck. Everything they said was offensive, but the actual drive behind it was very much defense. We just wanted to go in and have a pancake or a cup of coffee with some ham and eggs, but we had to be prepared to put up with some taunting. All we were doing was playing music, but what we realized was we were going through some very intersting social dilemmas and clashes. And whole loads of insecurities, it seemed to me. Americans were supposed to be brash and self-confident. Bullshit. That was just a front. Especially the men, especially in those days, they didn’t know quite what was happening. Things did happen fast. I’m not surprised that a few guys couldn’t get the spin on it.

                  The only hostility I can recall on a consistent basis was from white people. Black brothers and musicians at the very least thought we were interestingly quirky. We could talk. It was far more difficult to break through to white people. You always got the impression that you were definitely a threat. And all you’d done was ask, “Can I use your bathroom?” “Are you a boy or girl?” What are you gonna do? Pull your cock out?

                  … In some towns we got some real hostility, real killer looks in our direction. Sometimes we got the sense that an exemplary lesson was about to be taught us, right then and there. We’d have to make a quick getaway in our faithful station wagon with Bob Bonis, our road manager, great guy. He’d been on road with midgets, performing monkeys, with some of the best acts of all time. He eased us into America, driving five hundred miles a day.”

              • Harley says:

                Merry Christmas a bit late to you Outdoorfunnut. And a very Happy New Year.

            • Mareks Vilkins says:

              that passage applies to humans, not animals

              The point was about fear which is the cause of hatred –> and violence as some kind of ‘solution’ . It doesn’t matter who is the source of fear – your neighbor or animal. “Greenies/conversationalists” are middle-men in this case.

              • Louise Kane says:

                I was so surprised after reading that biography about how insightful Mr. Richards was on so many fronts, not to mention being one of the most talented guitarists on earth

                anyhow great comment as it relates to the fear and loathing that seems to emanate from some of the mid and southern areas of the country that never translates well for wildlife

              • Harley says:

                There is a danger in all absolutes.

                “All southerners are red necks. All red necks are bible thumping ignorant thinkers.”

                “All conservationist/greenies are Godless tree huggers who will put animals first every time before humans.”

                Be careful when you lump everyone into a nice neat package.

                And while I know there is true hatred concerning hunters/ranchers vs.”greenies/conversationalists”,
                and I understand what your point was, using a quote incorrectly from the Bible to justify a thought or position, from either side of the aisle, is wrong. Specially if you don’t believe in what is in that book to begin with. Perhaps I missing the whole point of why you are using the Bible for your example and if so, my apologies.

                That’s just my two cents worth anyway.

                Happy New Year, may it shine brightly.

  18. Nancy says:

    Happy Holidays everyone!

  19. Nancy says:

    Thoughts from a year ago, for what its worth, the clock is ticking:

  20. Kathleen says:

    Take this with a grain of salt… “Animal winners and losers of 2015” – The article presents 5 winners and 5 losers, but a zoo-incarcerated orangutan who learns to communicate with zoo keepers is not a win for animals, IMO–and a couple other wins are dubious, also.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      I don’t like the tone either – ‘winners’ and ‘losers’ – who holds the key to that? It was sad to read that the big decline in marine life in only four decades – and with the human penchant for war, I worry about the snow leopard too. We just refuse to get it.

  21. Garry Rogers says:

    My casual observations indicate a strong downward trend in the local Lesser Goldfinch (Spinus psaltria) population ( Would appreciate anyone’s comments on this.
    Thank you.

  22. Yvette says:

    This one is frustrating to read. A heads up for anyone doing research. This could go beyond the location of newly discovered animal species.

    • rork says:

      We (who volunteer for the state) have taught each other to not say much about where high densities of our little rattlesnakes are, cause of fears about collectors. Same for showy lady’s slipper.

  23. Nancy says:

    But a step in the right direction, Yvette.

    The bronze skinks on display for sale, is sickening.

  24. Kathleen says:

    A giant squid makes an appearance in a Japanese port–one would expect that the sizable cephalopod would be killed as a curiosity or for food, right? But that’s not what happened! A very refreshing story:

    and amazing footage:

  25. rork says:

    Ten Elk die in Idaho, said to be from eating Japanese yew – did not know about this.

  26. Nancy says:

    Rork, 23 elk killed by train:

    Life is the pits for wildlife anymore, when you have to live around humans…..

  27. Barb Rupers says:

    Those trains are sport killing all the elk! They ate none of what they killed; just left them there to rot! They are the extra large variety from the east that are much heftier than the local variety; additionally, as rork reported, foreign Japanese yew trees decimated a flock of 10 elk in Idaho; they also wasted the meat. Such wanton destruction.

    At least wolves usually eat what they kill, given the chance.

  28. Ralph Maughan says:

    It looks like this is going to be a big story! Did this happen because the government never finished their business with the Bundys?

    Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters. The Oregonian

    • Salle says:

      Beat me to it! I was just going to post that story.

      Sounds like they took over while the place was closed for the weekend and they have trailers with supplies.

      They say they are there to avenge those guys who are getting sent back to jail for setting a big fire… judge says they didn’t serve enough time or something.

      Happy new year.

    • Salle says:

      It’s on yootoob…

  29. TLmule says:

    Biologists hope commercial fishing will end carp invasion at Malheur Wildlife Refuge

  30. Kathleen says:

    “Government agencies to cull up to 900 Yellowstone bison”

    Excerpt: “Park officials on Tuesday released details of plans for 600 to 900 bison to be killed this winter by hunters or captured and sent to slaughter. That potentially would be the most in one winter since 2008.”

    • Ida Lupines says:

      What happened to ‘roam if you want to’? I can’t stand this killing culture – and champing at the bit to shoot grizzlies too, not even delisted yet – what is wrong with people?

      • Kathleen says:

        “The sun, the moon and the stars would have disappeared long ago … had they happened to be within the reach of predatory human hands.”

        — Havelock Ellis, The Dance of Life, 1923.

        • Yvette says:

          Kathleen, that is a keeper. I’ve not heard that quote. Thanks for sharing.

        • Outdoorfunnut says:

          Despite what I have read here someplace today…..In 1969 our predatory human hands did touch the moon. Last I checked…..its still there. Thanks for posting Kathleen, You have made my day!

  31. Louise Kane says:

    This is one of the most horrid abuses I have ever seen. Like Romeo God help the wild animal that trusts a human. Sadly this is not the first kind of incident of this kind, I have seen dogs who who have the same devices taped to their muzzles. It makes me sad to say but humans are the scourge of the earth.

  32. Louise Kane says:

    another reason not to attend or watch performances that wild animals are forced to work at.

  33. Barb Rupers says:

    Alexander Archipelago wolf not to be listed by USFW

    • Louise Kane says:

      Barb here is the link on the USFWS 12-month finding on the petition to list the Alexander Archipelago wolf

      After skimming the USFWS denial of ESA protections for the AA wolf it appears that in the Service’s opinion nothing is a threat to the mere 89 remaining wolves, not habitat loss (including the loss of 75,000 acres in last year’s “conservation win” through the legislative trade off), over harvesting unlimited trapping and planned hunting despite a 60% decline in last year’s population, loss of principal food, or planned future increased road development and logging leading to more over harvesting and loss of denning sites and food.

      In sum, the Service declined all three proposals to list, including listing the most threatened of the area’s wolves (Prince of Wales area GMU2 population )

      The Service agreed that the population was “discrete” but concluded somehow that it is not “significant.”

      Likewise The Service agreed that the GMU2 area wolves face worse threats than elsewhere and summarize that over-harvesting is the cause of the recent decline. The wolf population declined by 60% in a single year, but the service wrote off this population as an insignificant portion of the range of the entire grey wolf population, (ignoring the subspecies issue).

      Ironically the Service partially denied listing based on the health of the Canis Lupis species elsewhere ignoring the threats to the AA DPS.

      Unless I misread the ruling, District Judge Beryl Howell in the Dec 2014 ruling held the USFWS attempts to carve out and use a DPS solely as a means to delist, in contempt, and as illegal.

      I don’t think she meant to provide the Service with an excuse or rationale to exempt protections for species that clearly fit into a DPS because they are truly a distinct subpopulation.

      The AA wolf has been considered a valid subspecies since 2005.

      Its a shame that thugs are occupying federal land even sadder that the the federal agency tasked with providing protection for wildlife engages in such transparent political maneuvers to abrogate the ESA despite the clearly defined mandate of the law.

      In this instance, since 1993 while the population of AA wolves precipitously plummeted the Service deliberately foot dragged their way around a status review and denied petitioners a response only to hand out this piece of garbage some 23 years later!!!

      What else can be done but to litigate?

      There are 89 of these animals left in Alaska. I’m really hating the USFWS

  34. Nancy says:

    “Court records say Miller admitted to shooting cats with blow darts when “they were out one night and kind of bored.”

  35. Immer Treue says:

    Former Miss Kansas nailed for Alaska game violation.

    What appears to me as beyond wrong, her first time “big game hunting” and she goes after brown bears, guided of course. Sounds like a new “Caribou Barbie” in the making.

  36. JB says:

    Grizzy deaths increase in Yellowstone

    BTW — Is the site fully moderated now? Every post I’ve made lately is delayed while “awaiting moderation”?

  37. Douglas McIntosh says:

    Letter to the National Park Service urging protection for park wolves that roam outside the park and are trapped or shot. – Douglas

  38. rork says:
    Asking for monarchs to be listed as endangered. It’s a tough call for me.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      I have to wonder what mysterious creature we keep hearing about that needs more time and protection by the USF&W, and is being left wanting by protecting sage grouse, 50 Alexander Archipelago wolves, 300 wolverines, 600 grizzlies, and disappearing Monarch butterflies. I know! It must be the Bundys and their confederates.

  39. Nancy says:

    Of course this article only delves in to the losses of our own species re: gun or car, so both very popular, in this day and age:

    Makes me wonder if we shouldn’t be thanking the manufacturers (of guns & cars) for their unique insight, regarding human over population? But chastising them also for their lack of insight when it comes to the destruction of other beings, in the way of that insight 🙂

    • Immer Treue says:

      The question that needs be asked is which of the two vectors of death encompass the more self inflicted deaths. I’m sure there are many who decide to end it all in their vehicle, or feel the need to step in front of a vehicle, but I would bet that number would not approach the self inflicted/fire arm suicides.

  40. Yvette says:

    What do you guys think is going on here? I’m going to share this one with an evolutionary biologist prof and get her opinion. I wish they had of provided more information like the age, size and weight of the mountain lion. Also, I’d like to know if there were any other deformities. Is this type of deformity congenital or is it more likely from the mom being exposed to some toxin while pregnant?

    Is it real was my first thought?

    • rork says:

      Idahostatejournal said a bit more. Teraotoma (cancer) could likely be ruled for or against by an ordinary human pathologist. Conjoined twin could also be confirmed (if true) if they weren’t identical twins, just by DNA fingerprinting tricks. If cancer (or benign growth), it’d take serious work to guess cause, and it would still just be guessing – you’d have to see many different mutations that share some hall-mark of a particular carcinogen, which is a long shot. Mutations happen. Sometimes partly due to a cause, sometimes for almost no reason.
      An interesting example in my world is cyclopia (usually sheep). It’s how we learned about Sonic Hedgehog (SHH) pathway. There’s a plant that blocks SHH. Eat too much and the lambs have just one eye in the middle. Compound identified from the plant started research to fight human tumors that have mutations in that pathway using HH inhibitors. It’s been a long slow learning process. There’s at least one approved drug now (genentec I believe), perhaps several.

      • Yvette says:

        I also thought that with a deformity like this the mother lion would have rejected or neglected when this lion was a cub.

        My evolutionary biology friend said that the twin hypothesis and that a mutation in a developmental gene are both valid. She said this is usually taken care of by miscarry but sometimes one will get through.

        I’m leaning toward this being fabricated. A deformed lion could be born but I don’t think it would live for long. I think the mother would reject it and it would die from neglect.

  41. Nancy says:

    My guess would be (a tumor that developed over time):

    “Another explanation is a so-called “teratoma” tumor. This type of abnormality, whose Greek name translates to “monster tumor,” can grow teeth and hair. In humans, it can grow fingers and toes”

    Real according to the Idaho F&G site:

    • Ida Lupines says:

      The EPA’s long-awaited assessment focused on how one of the most prominent neonics—Bayer’s imidacloprid—affects bees. The report card was so dire that the EPA “could potentially take action” to “restrict or limit the use” of the chemical by the end of this year, an agency spokesperson wrote in an emailed statement.

      Could potentially take action by the end of this year? They’ve already dragged their feet for 20! Why does it take so long? But then again, we’re still using Compound 1080 in this country, and that dates back to at least WWII. It’s so frustrating that financial interests rule all in this country. Sheesh.

  42. Ida Lupines says:

    My guess? A hoax. The hunter who ‘harvested’ the cougar hasn’t turned over the animal, nor responded to F&G. I hate it when the news devolves into the old National Enquirer type stories.

  43. Nancy says:

    Good read Aves.

    I don’t put out bird seed in the winter because I seldom see birds around (just those passing thru) but I have on a few occasions, cleared off a patch of the driveway and spread seed in early spring, if there are lingering snow storms.

    Course that attracts any hawks in the area, hoping to dine on the diners 🙂

  44. Ida Lupines says:

    Interesting. I can only relay what I’ve experienced feeding birds for decades. I report citizen studies to Cornell and Audubon yearly. I’ve seen generations of birds in my yard, and have come to recognize my regular crew. I don’t see any one type of bird getting it all, and I feed pretty much year-round. I do know that they don’t automatically forget how to forage for themselves just because people feed them, and I let my plants and flowers go to seed so that the birds can eat them. I don’t treat my lawn with chemicals, and I often get flocks of blackbirds or robins who I hope eat up the untainted insects! One year eight fledgling cardinals, and I’ve seen chickadees hammering out their hollow tree nests, and leaving sawdust all over the driveway. Very sweet. I wonder if these new studies from Britain need more research?

    In all the years I’ve been feeding birds, I’ve only seen hawks take a bird once or twice. They aren’t greedily taking everything like certain breeds of humans! A tiny merlin or kestrel zoomed in and took a mourning dove right out of the air, and I think a Cooper’s or Sharpie did too. It’s nature’s way and all part of the food chain. I’ve seen feral cats but never saw one take a bird.

    Here’s a video of a lovely. They are gorgeous birds:

    • Ida Lupines says:

      I should note that I have been feeding birds for, if not 30 years now, very close to that. It is such a rewarding thing.

      I wanted to add that every year, one species seems to have a big year – that one year it was the eight jr. cardinals that survived to fledge (which I thought was a very large brood and a big deal.) This past year, it was American goldfinches who had the large brood.

      You have never seen anything cuter than nearly grown birds still crying to be fed by their parents, nor the courtship ritual of the male feeding the female. Or the sign of winter when the juncos return, and sign of Spring when they leave. I think I have much more birds over the years, despite the hawks taking a ‘squab’ or two. 🙂

      I’ll save the waterfowl reports and deep woodlands birds for another day.

  45. Nancy says:

    “Most of the bison removed from America’s first national park are captured and sent to slaughter over concerns they may transmit disease to Montana livestock”

    “Most of the bison removed from America’s first national park are captured and sent to slaughter”

    “*******over concerns they may transmit disease to Montana livestock”

    “Montana State University wildlife researcher Robert Garrott says Yellowstone’s bison recovered dramatically from near-extinction over the past century”

    But…. Garrott says that success is overshadowed by the widely-criticized slaughters used to control bison numbers”

    And the wheels on this bus, continue to “go round and round”

    • Ida Lupines says:

      Large numbers of migrating Yellowstone National Park bison are likely to face slaughter for at least the next couple of winters as officials weigh changes to a 15-year-old agreement that drives the practice.

      Oh for crying out loud. How much longer do they plan to drag this out? We now know there is absolutely no reason for this.

  46. It seems that Ammon Bundy is an Idaho resident. Ammon Bundy and his wife Lisa purchased a 5,000 sq. ft. house on 4.5 acres near Emmett, Idaho in June, 2015. $450,000 +

    1881 W. South Slope Rd., Emmett, Idaho 83615
    they have a business phone 602-237-2840

    If you want to donate money for the Malheur occupation:

    Lisa Bundy
    P.O. Box 1072
    Emmett, Idaho

    If you want to send supplies, they have a friend in Oregon who is accepting donations of supplies and is taking them to the refuge headquarters:

    Shawna Cox
    36391 Sodhouse ln
    Princeton, Oregon 97721

    They also have as webpage where they give their side of the story at:
    I got all of this info simply by typing in: Ammon Bundy, Emmett, Idaho on the web. They are asking for thousands of armed supporters to come and help them with their invasion of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge.

    • mistyped the Emmett zip. should be 83617

    • skyrim says:

      Who gives a shit about “their side of the story” Larry?

      • TC says:

        Uh, in the context of other posts from Larry Thorngren this clearly was a tongue-in-cheek post. Hints of sarcasm or irony and an aftertaste of titillation. On the flip side, there are people that are interested in “their side of the story”, and it might behoove us to figure out why. And then start thinking about solutions.

        Or fling invective. You could go that way too. It is very tempting, but I suspect not very productive.

  47. Rich says:

    It is increasingly apparent that the Bundy clan has the Feds surrounded. Now in addition to Cliven Bundy’s lock on public lands in Nevada, the younger Bundys are destroying fencing and using government equipment and resources to further their hold on the Refuge.

    “The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is condemning the removal of fences bordering the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge by militants occupying the public property”

    “Members of Bundy’s group were seen using heavy equipment owned by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to pull up fence posts Monday.”

  48. Salle says:

    Some interesting background on some of the groups in play at Malheur…

    A funny thing happened at the community meeting this evening, one of the charlatans went to the meeting and interrupted most of the speakers while he was live streaming the meeting and ended up getting kicked out for calling authorities and residents commies because they told him they want all the out of towners to go away. He continued to live stream as he was escorted out and then he whined about it for over ten minutes.

    It’s getting lots of ridicule on social media.

    They are getting frustrated that they aren’t getting their shoot out at the Malheur Refuge.

    • Louise Kane says:

      the egregious part is when they use the collars to kill the wolves which they inevitably seem to get away with year after year. I hope that the IDFG is required to remove the collars. There is no limit to their insane persecution of wolves.

  49. Ida Lupines says:

    What’d I tell ya – I think we mentioned this in a couple of other posts. A mistake? An obsession.

    • Nancy says:

      Your post had an all too familiar “ring” to it Aves:

      As in “Oh I though it was a goose”

      “Louisiana’s goose season is still open and a landowner had reported earlier in the week that the cranes were “hanging about” with a large flock of snow geese, Love said. But, he said, the shooting couldn’t have been a mistake: “There’s no mistaking a snow goose for a whooping crane.”

  50. Nancy says:

    “Three nights ago they hit us, and they’ve hit us every night since, and they just don’t seem to want to leave,” Golay said. “I’ve lost about $6,000 worth of pasture, and about $600 worth of hay.”

    Interesting how ranchers expect the rest of us, who live around them (open range) to fence our property off to keep their cattle out but they can’t come up with a few bucks to fence wildlife out?

    Can you say subsidies?

    • rork says: shows prices last July. Bobcat run $50 near me I think. I’ve been seeing “my” red foxes allot – amazing cause it’s coyote central lately. They look huge compared to summer cause of the coats and are astonishingly beautiful – worth just 16$ dead. The coyotes are gorgeous too. $20. I’d pay lots more than that for their safety.

      • rork says:

        I was concerned about bunny overabundance in late fall, but my worries were silly it appears.

  51. rork says:
    About the Utah coyote bounties. I haven’t read the reports themselves but I wonder if they will kill more coyotes every year, and think that shows it’s working – that’s my attempt at humor. One commenter says it’s more about trying to protect livestock than deer, just that deer are a better story – not sure I’d thought of that one. Another hints at why payouts may be up – coyote skins from nearby states manage to find their way to Utah. Hi Ho!

  52. Yvette says:

    Interesting bit of news. Grand Teton and Yellowstone NPs broke visitor records this past year and are bracing for an even larger number of visitors this year. I wonder how the park’s wildlife and habitats will handle the increase in visitors. I hope this year visitors will stay a safe distance from the bison and bears.

  53. WM says:

    Colorado Parks & Wildlife Commission weighs in on wolf re-introduction, with a consistent view of its wolf working group efforts from several years ago:

    And, for the wolves coming in naturally from adjacent areas, CO secretly cheers for UT (who doesn’t want any period), and WY (who still wants 90% of the state declared a predator zone as long as they meet their ESA agreed obligation of 150/15 plus buffer [currently in litigation].

    It leaves little doubt there will be some “self-help” from livestock owners to reduce the number of wolves from migrating into CO, whether the source area is the NRM or the tiny Mexican wolf population in AZ-NM/Four Corners.

    • Outdoorfunnut says:

      WM, what does the science say as to good /excellent habitat in CO & what is your basis for your answer. Do you feel that if the states management plans were honored in other states that CO would be more willing to welcome wolves?

    • Ida Lupines says:

      We know they will take matters into their own hands, that’s a given. That’s why the gubmint shouldn’t be making matters any more easy for them. Aggressive hunting policies should be ‘re-evaluated’; and there should be ESA protection of some sort for all predators. UT and all these states claiming to want more freedom already de facto own and run these states; they need to sit down and shut up already. The their servant, the BLM, is already wiping the country clean of wild horses for them, refuses to plant native grasses, destroying native ecosystems for more ranching, declaring chemical and other war on predators, and keeps grazing fees as if it were 300 years ago. If their boys in Congress hadn’t cooked up that rider, they would never had wolves delisted and they know it. That’s the only option available to them.

  54. Louise Kane says:

    OK I’m sorry I’m not sure I’ve ever done this. Not wildlife but wild.

    very creepy video looking a lot to me like Germany’s recruitment of youth at a certain critical juncture of time. Yikes, this buffoon is really scary.

  55. Louise Kane says:

    very very cool!
    yes indeed
    now for MA to change
    my supposed liberal state is corrupted by its crooked wildlife agency

    • rork says:

      [Unnamed hunting groups] “point to recent laws banning bobcat trapping, the use of lead bullets, coyote killing contests and the hounding of bears and bobcats.” Oh no, the sky is falling.

      • Louise Kane says:

        yes all the worst atrocities banned but not by those dirty liberal “environmentalists” but by voters!

        I don’t subscribe to hunting but I can understand people that hunt for food (even if I disagree )

        I don’t understand needless pain and suffering, wanton waste, over managing species, and wildlife agencies that would allow hounding, baiting, calling, trapping and snaring (all of which give unfair advantages) and when they don’t take into consideration other stakeholders. Rork you won’t like this but I wish bowhunting would go away also, I can’t imagine the pain and suffering from a misplaced shot with a bow.

        • rork says:

          About the same as bad gun shot I figure. Guns seem like the unfair advantage – those things kill stuff at super-human distances. I’m shooting 20 yards. I do think some smaller animals would be ridiculously hard with bow though.
          I’m OK with calling. I do it. Electronic calls should be illegal, and mostly are, except some places make exceptions for wolf or coyote (that’s cheating).

    • Yvette says:

      Good article, Louise. We should keep and eye on CA to see how this evolves. I think it will be slow coming in most other states.

    • Leslie says:

      Now if CA can come up with a good plan to fund the agency that can be used as a working model…that would be a game changer.

  56. rork says:
    No data, and perhaps nothing very new, about counting wolves in MI.
    Note that 2011 (not 2012) was our wolf max. Also note that the guy who shot so many wolves was not hunting, and his killings do not show we need hunting, but instead is an example of problem wolves being killed without hunting seasons.

    • Nancy says:

      “Nancy Warren, who lives near the Koski property and is the Great Lakes regional director of the National Wolfwatcher Coalition, contends the wolf numbers are down.

      “We’re not seeing them like we used to see,” Warren said. “We’re not hearing them like we used to.”

      She said the decline in the deer population and another factor may be involved.

      “I also think there might be a lot of poaching going on,” Warren said”

  57. Kathleen says:

    David Suzuki: “If a prey population, like moose, is out of whack, it can likely be traced to humans and not to a sudden decision by coyotes and wolves to supersize their meals.”
    Protect Ontario’s predators! Join us at
    Deadline to comment is Monday

  58. Nancy says:

    New twist on “road kill” salvage? Someone couldn’t call a game warden to put this elk out of it’s misery?

  59. Nancy says:

    A little off the path of wildlife news but:

    And buried down on page 2:

    “Developed by Monsanto, the owners of Nutrasweet, neotame certainly delivered on at least two of those goals: It is heat-stable, and the intensity of its sweetness is 7,000 to 13,000 times greater than sugar. But the sweetness takes a while to develop in the mouth, it lingers longer, and it can have a licorice-like quality, so neotame is most often used in combination with other artificial sweeteners”

    Same “folks”

  60. Nancy says:

    R.I.P. Glenn

  61. skyrim says:

    Damn! First I heard of this loss.
    I just watched a great Eagles documentary last week on Netflix. What a talent…..

  62. Yvette says:

    I didn’t know this was illegal, but am glad the OK game warden, Gomez stayed on this case. That is a hefty fine. One lady was fined for selling deer meat and I didn’t know that was illegal.

    The next one is disgusting. I’m sure whoever killed this elk on this nature reserve knew he was a popular attraction. They killed him and only took his head. Sounds like what happened to Cecil the lion.

    • rork says:

      Can’t sell sport-caught fish either. As you get, if we allowed deer or fish sales we’d have poaching overwhelm, or just over-harvest for money. Near Great Lakes we suspect there’s a bit of a black market in walleye and perch anyway – same guys out walleye fishing 100 days in a row. Most states do allow selling of parts of trapped animals. Fur clearly, but most places include the meat(beaver, muskrat, raccoon, opossum). PA is actually debating about trapping porcupine lately, worried folks will kill too many cause of the meat – I did not know that they were good.

  63. Louise Kane says:

    Tom Knudson tests trap

  64. Nancy says:

    Talk about wild life news 🙂 Sorry but I had to post this latest “late breaking” news:

  65. Mark L says:

    “because energy is my baby, oil and gas and minerals, those things that God has dumped on this part of the earth for mankind’s use,”

    What’s to be afraid of, Nancy?

  66. WM says:

    This is sort of complicated, but President Obama just vetoed a measure of the R Congress to overturn a recent federal regulation expanding EPA/Corps of Engineers regulation of certain small bodies of water previously thought to be outside the purview of the Clean Water Act. This would include federal regulation of very small bodies of water on private land and irrigation ditches which distribute water for consumptive use, largely agriculture. The bureaucratic regulatory effort including permitting, and cost to private waters (to say nothing of states who typically administer water rights) would be extremely burdensome and likely unworkable in many states.

    Well, President Obama indeed vetoed, but it won’t be enough, so Congress wins.

    To me, this illustrates the widening gap between what the electorate says it wants thru its Congressional representatives and what it says the Party and an unaccountable bureaucracy wants from the Executive Branch (including federal bureaucrats carrying out Party agendas largely outside the view of the public).

    IMHO this isn’t good. And for the record, this was/is a rule which probably has many states asking how stupid the federal government bureaucrats are in EPA and Army Corps of Engineers. Washington DC is out of synch with the rest of America for good or bad.

    • Yvette says:

      The intent of the new clean water rule is to clarify the definition of ‘waters of the U.S.’ and ‘navigable waters’. Maybe it was never a clear enough definition but it certainly was convoluted after the USSC ruling and new definitions that arose from the 2001 SWNCC vs U.S. and, 2006 Rapanos v. U.S. cases.

      I do not understand the pushback from business and agriculture unless they are trying to hide something, or maybe it’s just because it’s the feds. Why would they not want to clarify what constitutes a ‘waters of the U.S.’? The new rule clarifies what is and is not a tributary. It is based on hydrological features, i.e., for small streams, are there physical features of flowing water (it won’t have to be perennial flow) but does it have a bed, bank, and an ordinary high water mark? Ditches not constructed in streams are not ‘waters of the U.S.’.

      Where in the new water rule does it add further regulations or permit requirements to agriculture. Show me where in the new water rule that agriculture has added burden and more permitting requirements have been added. Take me to the rule and show me.

        • Yvette says:

          I was referring to the language in the rule itself not an interpretation of the rule. I noticed that the link with the interpretation is from the National Association of Counties. Are they similar to the Chamber of Commerce? I sped read that link but did see where they referred to tributaries as ditches. That is wrong. Scientifically and hydrologically incorrect. That tells me they are politically motivated, so right now I don’t trust their interpretation as being based on science. That is a huge mistake from a hydrological standpoint and I’ll stand with the science.

          I couldn’t access the second link but I’m on an ipad right now.

          The new water rule has been legally challenged so EPA can’t implement any enforcement until that is resolved.

          It seems the contention is based mostly on the fact that EPA and ACOE used the terms ephemeral and intermittent in the attempt to clarify the mud puddle that the Roberts court left after SWANCC and Rapanos. Tributaries, ephemeral and intermittent streams have always been protected under the CWA. I think it goes toward the chemical, biological, and physical integrity of the waterbody, which is the way the CWA language reads. Also, we’d have to include the downstream users, who have always been protected in the CWA. At least it’s meant to protect.

          I know you don’t like lawsuits but since the rule has been challenged I think it will be years before we can get the ‘waters of the U.S.’clarified.

          • WM says:


            Link to the rule as published in the Federal Register (which includes the rationale and summary).


            When the regulated community, which in this instance is quite broad, steps out with this kind of pressure there is reason for concern of regulatory over-reach. The regulated community actually wanted this to go to the Supreme Court before this recent legislative action.

            I think Senator Edmund Muskie, a primary sponsor and ardent environmentalist and author of the 1972 Clean Water Act would roll over in his grave in protest of this attempted bureaucratic over-reach in the definition of waters covered by the Act. This is a matter for Congress, not EPA/COE bureaucrats or a President trying to leave a memorable legacy in his last few lame duck days. And he predictably got smacked down.

            • Yvette says:

              “I think Senator Edmund Muskie, a primary sponsor and ardent environmentalist and author of the 1972 Clean Water Act would roll over in his grave in protest of this attempted bureaucratic over-reach in the definition of waters covered by the Act.”

              The reason you do not state the language from the rule where EPA and ACOE are adding regulations and burden to agriculture and businesses is because it does not exist. There is no language in this rule where there have been added burdens or regulatory requirements added to agriculture. It does not exist. This is a partisan effort to impede the CWA protection of the biological, chemical and physical integrity of the nation’s waterbodies.

              It’s frustrating to see this partisan division on something that is not adding any regulatory burdens. There are partisan groups promoting lies and misinformation to stir the Bundyland type of people. Here is a fact sheet on myths and truths that the farm union prepared. It addresses some of the overreach you referred to.


              There are multiple categorical exclusions for agriculture in the new rule. They got everything they wanted except for a complete repeal of the CWA.

              Agriculture permitting exemptions:

              – Normal farming, silviculture, and ranching practices.
              – Upland soil & water conservation practices.
              – Agricultural stormwater discharges.
              – Return flows from irrigated agriculture.
              – Construction/maintenance of farm or stock ponds or irrigation ditches on dry land.
              – Maintenance of drainage ditches.
              – Construction or maintenance of farm, forest, and temporary mining roads.

              The new rule even contains exclusions from permitting that were not there previously.

              I see the legal challenge as a waste of time and taxpayer money. The Chamber of Commerce and the ag industry is biting off the their noses to spite themselves.

              What a shame for something that is meant to clarify legal language for a definition (that was muddied further by supreme court justices) is such a battle. And lest we forget why we need laws and the federal regulations to implement those laws: What was it that Dupont did with their C-8 waste for many years? They released it into the streams. They knew how toxic C-8 was and when they found out they didn’t stop releasing it or notify anyone. They intentionally hid it. I haven’t followed this so I’d have to research it much more to talk about it. How many people died? How many children were poisoned? What happened to the ecosystem in those watersheds? Corporations like DuPont do not do protect our water out of the kindness of their hearts. They don’t give a care about people, animals or ecosystems. At least that is what I surmise from their actions in this case.

              Much of the regulations regarding the protection of our surface waters is related not only to protecting the ecological integrity of the system but also our source waters. Why is the Flint River still contaminated all these years after the auto industry dumped their untreated hazardous waste? Some toxins linger. Metals are some of the worst and they get settled in the sediment and stirred up if disturbed. That contamination still exists in the river all these decades later and is bad enough to corrode pipes which has leached lead into the drinking water supply of thousands of people in Flint. How many children may now have lower IQ’s and/or learning disabilities because of the decisions of few people who did not care enough to protect the water and protect the people? Poor kids for the most part. Certainly not rich kids. There is no reversing the damage to those people who have had elevated levels of lead, or even acute lead poisoning. It is permanent. Even after Synder and Co. were notified of the problem they continued to let it happen.

              And why does the Gulf of Mexico have a huge swath of dead zone? We know it’s from agriculture runoff that starts thousands of miles north of the GOM.

              If bureaucratic overreach is what stops or slows people like Synder and Dupont, (hey, corporations are people) then so be it. If the clarification in the new rule can improve BMPs that will slow the expansion of the dead zone in the GOM then so be it. It doesn’t address that because there are no added regulations or burdens to agriculture.

              I’m not trying to fight with you, WM, but there is another side to this clean water act rule.

              • WM says:


                Sorry, but I don’t have the time to read the rule and the rationale, but I worked with the Clean Water Act for many years in several different capacities. The stories I could tell over a beer. You might want to read this Washington Post opinion piece article, from a professor of environmental politics at Duke. She gets it:


                • Yvette says:

                  Good article, WM. Believe me or not, I am not always pro-regulation. There are times it can get ridiculous and the regulators seem to ignore common sense. Since I do get around a fair amount of farmers, I believe that the majority of them want to do the best they can to produce good food and take care of the land and water.

                • WM says:


                  I don’t know what to make of this but your OK Senator and Chair of the Environment and Public Works Committee, and Senator Sasse from NE are going after EPA for lobbying its clean water rule, apparently in violation of federal law (according to the GAO). Attorney General Loretta Lynch (and I think she is worthless compared to Eric Holder), is being asked to do an investigation. Read about it here:


                  So I think the agriculture lobby is still on top of this over-reach issue.

              • rork says:

                I appreciate both sides of the debate, thankyou. But I wouldn’t use Flint as an example of river pollution being the main problem – incompetence or meekness of engineers suffices as the explanation. Tragedy could easily and cheaply have been averted, at least about lead.

                • rork says:

                  I admit that greater difficulty dealing with river water (more fluctuations in composition) than great lakes water was a distraction that made it harder to focus on what was happening to the pipes.

                • Yvette says:

                  Agreed. It’s upsetting because it’s fresh and the damage has the potential to be devastating to children. That upsets me. Of course, a good portion of the people are financially challenged given the history of the loss of industry in Flint.

                  Here in Oklahoma we’ve had the Tar Creek Superfund site. At one time it was the worst superfund site in the nation. If you get an opportunity to view a documentary called ‘The Creek Runs Red’ watch it. It’s outdated now but it does provide the background on how bad it is. There were many abandoned zinc and lead mines that contaminated the entire area. There is a lot of work and research happening in the area.

                  I use to marginalize the damage that lead can do since I’m of an age where lead paint and gasoline was a part of life. I take lead exposure more seriously than I use to because it truly has the potential to do lasting damage. I am in shock that the level of lead exposure over the amount of time of that exposure can happen in 2015.

  67. Mal Adapted says:

    Some good news on the public-lands front:

    Court Sides With US Agency in Decades-Old Land-Grazing Case

    Siding with the government in a decades-old battle over grazing rights, a federal appeals court overturned a lower-court ruling in favor of a Nevada rancher and strongly admonished a judge in Reno for abusing his power and exhibiting personal bias against U.S. land managers.

    And I just donated another $10 to WWP. $190, $10 for each day of the MNWR occupation, and counting. I can keep this up as long as the Bundy gang can!

  68. WRO says:

    Bad news for Oregon sheep in the Owyhees..

  69. Ida Lupines says:

    On a lighter note (sort of):

    The Ahwahnee is set to be renamed the Majestic Yosemite Hotel on March 1, 2016, due to a legal dispute between the US Government, which owns the property, and the outgoing concessionaire, Delaware North, which claims rights to the trademarked name. source: Wikipedia

    Majestic Yosemite? What kind of a name is that? Boring and dull, and so without character as to be offensive. I hope this isn’t the Park Service’s idea of updating and hauling things kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Too bad they can’t do that with the ranchers and wolf haters!

    Ahwahnee is a beautiful name, and has a lot of history to it, doesn’t anyone care about history anymore? – how can this concessionaire own the name if it was named in 1927, and a word that is part of a native language? They certainly does not own it. 🙁

    I cannot believe the government doesn’t own the rights to the name. Doesn’t anyone believe in fighting for anything any more? Guess not!

  70. Ida Lupines says:

    Sure, the state and the city are responsible for not telling the public, but is it too much to ask to clean up the river of lead and other contaminants in the first place? The Great Lakes still allow toxins to be dumped into them, and where I am there are still contaminants in the ocean water from decades ago dumping of chemicals without regulation or in defiance of regulation (GE, we’re looking at you). There are still warnings to this day about eating fish with too high levels of PCBs.

    This is what we can expect more of if certain groups have their way.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      And no home should have lead pipes in this day and age. The State or Federal gov’t or both should have them replaced.

    • rork says:

      The lead was not in the river water Ida. Your making me think people who’ve heard about this just recently only get a sound bite of irate people complaining and have no clue what happened. The lead is not there when it leaves the water treatment plant either. It gets picked up from pipes along the way – if you are a completely incompetent civil engineer and didn’t insure that doesn’t happen.
      The municipal pipes are owned by the city so why is it suddenly the state or federal governments responsibility (I’m not saying we shouldn’t be concerned). My well had some trouble a year ago – I don’t recall anybody offering me a subsidy to dig a new one. The pipes in the homes are owned by the home-owners. I don’t have a problem with helping communities out some with replacing lead pipes, cause it’s a public health measure, but it’s not really fair – other communities and home owners have replaced their’s cause they have responsible long-term plans to get rid of lead. Amazingly they knew DECADES ago that they needed to slowly replace them.

      • Ida Lupines says:

        No, I certainly was aware of all that, I live in a state and grew up in an era where lead paint and making homes safe before purchase is a big deal. Lead poisoning prevention has been a huge issue for decades. It’s frustrating that it is still a lingering issue, when we know full well the dangers.

        The point I was making is, there’s bound to be contaminants of all kinds in our rivers, not just lead. We can’t keep kicking these things down the road forever, with an increasing population needing more water in the future. We can see the results of doing that. If it isn’t E.coli contamination which was the reason for the switchover in the first place, it is going to be something – PCBs, poisons from algae from fertilizer runoff from etc etc. Throwing water softeners or phosphates etc is only delaying the inevitable. I still think for the worst cases the Feds should provide cleanup funding. A harbor where I am is still a Superfund Site after many decades. Large companies such as GE should be made to clean up their messes quicker than they have been, and fined.

        The river and water supplies are acidified due to acid rain and increasingly, greenhouse gases. Pipes are going to leach metals (I do own my own home), I don’t know if PVC is an option. If a homeowner can afford it, by all means, do – but there are many poor people who can’t afford it, and need housing wherever they can get it – older homes may still have lead paint or lead pipes, and it is an ethical/moral issue to take care of that. We can’t keep talking that we care about human health, and yet fail to address this.

        • Ida Lupines says:

          ^^and a landlord’s obligations before rentals.

        • rork says:

          “The point I was making is, there’s bound to be contaminants of all kinds in our rivers, not just lead.”
          But that’s not the problem with the lead situation in Flint. They switched TO Flint river water, and not from any issues about pollution in previous water source. You say you get it but my doubts persist.

          • JEFF E says:

            Read that the city of New York has 300,000 lbs. of rock salt ready for the snow storm.
            I guess the ocean needs more salt

      • Nancy says:

        “Later it became publicly known that federal law had not been followed. A 2011 study on the Flint River found it would have to be treated with an anti-corrosive agent for it to be considered as a safe source for drinking water”

        Rork said “My well had some trouble a year ago – I don’t recall anybody offering me a subsidy to dig a new one. The pipes in the homes are owned by the home-owners”

        Rork, I have a well also, got hard water and rust. My well, pipes are 50 years old. But I don’t see that as an issue here.

        These people are “paying” for the water coming into their homes thru a system set up by the local municipal that failed them.

        And my guess would more than a few of these homes are not DECADES old, with old pipes and should expect decent water coming into their homes?

        So where else do you go if local municipals aren’t handling the situation well? State, Federal level? (no pun intended 🙂 10 months these people have been concerned about their “public” drinking water.

        IMHO, things are only going to get worse as the human species continues to ignore how precious water really is to our existence.

        But, then again, who really cares when some are already working on ways to suck the oceans dry?”

        “Far more must be done to use our existing water more efficiently, but with the world’s population escalating and the water supply dwindling, the economic tide may soon turn in favor of desalination”

      • Outdoorfunnut says:

        Ohh come on Rork! Surely you can do better than blame the liberal democrats running the show in Flint. I’m sure they budgeted and spent wisely! Be creative. I’m sure the Koch brothers & Ted Cruz can be blamed somehow?

        • timz says:

          I wonder if the Koch brothers are responsible for getting the criminal probe of Reid himself stymied.

          • Ralph Maughan says:


            Senator Reid has railed against the Koch Brothers for a long time and increasingly so.

        • rork says:

          We also had failures at our state’s Department of Environmental Quality as well as the national EPA. I don’t think anybody wants lead in water. I was not blaming Democrats or Republicans, but there’s allot of both going on near me. I debate policy issues one at a time.

        • JB says:

          Fact: The city of Flint’s water supply was poisoned, in part because of lax environmental regulation and enforcement of environmental regulations. (Same is true of the city of Toledo, whose water supply was affected by a toxic algal bloom last year.)

          Fact: Both the Koch brothers and Ted Cruz have worked (tirelessly) against environmental regulation.

          Fact: Tea Party candidates campaign on the idea that environmental regulation is too cumbersome, doesn’t work, and/or isn’t needed.

          How’s that for you OFN?

          • Outdoorfunnut says:

            That’s better….I knew you could do it! Thanks JB! Rork is what some call the JV team.

          • Outdoorfunnut says:

            We have already hashed over the “97% of scientist” and what they exactly say on another thread. I’m NOT interested in rehashing that here BUT, When you allow leaders like Obama and Kerry to say stuff that is an outright lie it will come back to haunt you. Cruz, Trump or any of the GOP will use that to the fullest & rightfully so. If you believe in a cause YOU shouldn’t have to lie to advance it. Again, I’m not a climate change denier…. just sitting on the fence observing and many are.

          • Outdoorfunnut says:

            Please give me examples of how Ted Cruz has worked “(tirelessly)against environmental regulation”. OR are you interpreting seeking the truth and wise use of tax dollars as being against a clean environment or even better yet purposefully hurting the environment as some would want us to believe.

            Algae are a natural component of the aquatic food chain and are typically not harmful to people. However, the overabundance of algae in a bloom can be aesthetically unappealing and harmful to people. Grandpa said years ago that the local lake had algae blooms when he was a kid. He was born in 1905! If I remember right, the Koch brothers granddad was polluting our lakes way back then. Aye?

        • Immer Treue says:

          Lint, as usual.

        • skyrim says:


    • Yvette says:

      I thought I responded to this last night but I guess I didn’t. Ida, it would need to be determined what constituents need to be cleaned up, if it is possible, and then is it financially feasible. The cost of a major clean up like what you are talking about may not be feasible, and may do very little in the long run. Natural attenuation may be the most feasible. The water should have state regulators/engineers that designate a use for that water based on multiple factors, like what pollutants are present and how much is there. After that water quality standards are determined for that waterbody. If I implied that the lead was in the water, I apologize for lack of clarity. That isn’t what I meant. Rork already addressed it.

      Throughout the nation, the infrastructure for drinking water systems are in dire need of upgrades. In many places there are aging pipes that are leaking between the treatment plant and the residence or business. Other problems exist, too. It takes money to treat water so that is money lost. How much it costs to get source water safe for drinking water depends on the quality of water being used.

      There are many small towns or communities facing this problem and they simply do not have money to replace or upgrade the systems and pipes. Even lead pipes. Many states are facing cutbacks because of budgets. OK has nearly a billion dollar budget shortfall due to the oil market. But the state has put most of their eggs in the oil and gas basket.

      • Ida Lupines says:

        No, my lead-in-the-river comment wasn’t because of your post or rork’s. I made an incomplete, misstatement and thought I corrected it with another post. I was thinking about other water contaminants as well as lead – I highly doubt the Flint River is as pure as a mountain stream. If clean water isn’t a priority, what is?

        • Ida Lupines says:

          And nobody better say keeping the population safe from wolves! 😉

        • rork says:

          It’s wall-to-wall smallmouth. I suggest canoeing it upstream of Flint rather than downstream I admit, and it’s true we have rivers that tower above it. Water is a giant priority for me – I approve that message.

  71. Barb Rupers says:

    Another delisting of the gray wolf by the senate coming up?

    • Ida Lupines says:

      Is that all they do? Sheesh!!

    • rork says:

      Hartl is a crooked weenie. How will ESA protections in MI get wolves to Maine any faster? How does delisting incentivize indiscriminate killing? Is illegal lion hunting or elephant slaughter really that on point? Why not give some good arguments? I hate these tactics. It is lying for wolves.

  72. Kathleen says:

    Maybe this was already posted elsewhere–video from yesterday’s rally of hundreds–I had friends there who said 500–in Portland, OR for the liberation of Malheur Wildlife Refuge. Check out the “invasive species” sign!

  73. Kathleen says:

    Distressing stuff happening outside Yellowstone’s north entrance at Gardiner:

    “This little buffalo calf was shot in the leg by hunters at Beattie Gulch. He survived and somehow managed to run off, escaping through nearby private land; but his leg was shattered. A Montana game warden shot him to end his suffering, then with assistance from a Montana Department of Livestock stock inspector and U.S. Forest Service law enforcement officer, he was hauled out from his resting place along the Yellowstone river. As if to reward this unethical hunting behavior, the agents ended up giving him to the hunter who wounded him.”

    You can see video of this bison calf being dragged behind an ATV–it’s in the latest Update from the Field from Buffalo Field Campaign. Also in this update, an opportunity to support BFC by sending a unique valentine to the recipient(s) of your choice. This year’s card celebrates the acquisition of year-round habitat on Horse Butte, MT. Have mercy on the card-maker (ahem) and order early!

  74. Ida Lupines says:

    Clean water is important to me too. 🙂

    I know we had a song in honor of Glenn Fry, and I wanted to add a song in honor of David Bowie too – I had a hard time choosing one, but with all the topics we discuss, I decided upon this one:

    • Ida Lupines says:

      oops, wrong one (although that’s a good one too) –

      I meant ‘The Man Who Sold the World’:

  75. rork says:
    About road closures (or not). It was a bit heartening for me. Even RMEF guy was saying too much access is bad for elk hunters. We have battles in MI too, where my fellow hunters want more roads, where I think we obviously have many – I very much like what’s happened after closures. I been wanting to visit Kootenai area – never been.

  76. Kathleen says:

    For all of our brain capacity and technology, we just can’t speak ‘whale.’ Researchers are trying, with recorded whale alarm sounds, to warn humpbacks away from fishing gear, but so far, no go. Fishing gear–and ghost gear (lost, discarded, abandoned gear)–is among the deadliest hazard in the ocean for marine mammals, birds, and turtles. I suppose it isn’t realistic to think we should just get all our crap out of their home…

  77. Kathleen says:

    Coyote killing contest today near Crandon in Forest Co., WI.: “Saturday’s contest includes a category for hound hunters and one for hunters who attract coyotes with calls.”

    Friends of WI Wolf Facebook page:

    Tavern where contest starts & ends:

    • Ida Lupines says:

      Such a repulsively primitive activity. I look forward to the day it is gone. Why there is a certain segment of American society who wants to hold on to this kind of savagery I have no idea. You’d think knowing how poorly it is viewed would embarrass them.

    • Ida Lupine says:

      As Rod Coronado says below, if these people are so proud of their activities, why have they kept so quiet? It’s like an underground, animal-sacrificing coven now – I haven’t read anything about the one at or around Burns, and this killing frenzy in WI.

      This man below is a man of character and integrity, who takes a great risk to do the right thing:

  78. Kathleen says:

    Apologies if this has already been posted…such a sad commentary on Homo sapiens’ inability to ethically manage our own species and the widespread suffering it brings to many other species.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      I know, I worry about talk of border fences by politicians in this country too – we don’t include animal welfare in any of our decisions, only ourselves. I’m really fearful about what’s to become of our water supplies – if history is any indication (and it usually is), we’ll take it all for ourselves and leave nothing for wildlife.

  79. Nancy says:


    “Next year, FWP has proposed expanding the extended seasons to 44 hunting districts scattered around the state where elk have exceeded population objectives”

  80. Kathleen says:

    “Scientists have studied the effects of trophy hunting on bighorn sheep with alarming results: human selection is leading to artificial evolution, resulting in smaller horn size.”

    Read more at:

  81. Ida Lupines says:

    I wonder how many ‘accidental’ wolves were killed during this thing.

    Described as a ‘disturbing trend’…. These people are determined to find a way to kill wolves, as well as coyotes.

    Wisconsin Coyote Hunt Faces Backlash for Bloodlust and ‘Accidental’ Endangered Wolf Shootings

    • Yvette says:

      You won’t like this, Ida, but at least Wolf Patrol found it and turned it in to WI DNR. The punk poachers had bait on hooks. Watch the video and at 1:23 he starts to talk about it. If I were a legislator I’d attach a rider to a bill that forces every state to obtain all pertinent data on coyotes, (weight, gender, age, etc.) and that every coyote killing contest must have an open door policy where media is allowed to film all coyotes killed; collect the names of each coyote killer and the number of coyotes they killed in that contest. I’m sure I could come up with other things to add to that bill. All data from every coyote killing contest would need to be published on the state’s wildlife and game website with the names of the hunters who participated.

      • Yvette says:

        forgot the attachment

      • Ida Lupines says:

        Wow, these coyote/wolf/bear killers like to play dirty, don’t they. I didn’t think those who like to kill helpless animals for fun could sink any lower, but they’ve proven me wrong. Disgusting.

      • Ida Lupines says:

        In fairness too – there ought to be a prize for the mangiest looking hunter too. 🙂

      • rork says:

        You are fighting the ability of people to associate. We have giant ice-fishing tournaments right now (e.g. Tip-up town). My little village has a “buck pole”, with prizes. I do not participate, but I go visit, as do many. I’d rather try to eliminate hounding. I think the reason that is not the focus is because being against contests brings more donations. Much talk about it being appalling, while minuscule numbers of coyotes are killed. I don’t like the repeated claims of how they are doing us all a favor, at every workshop on predator hunting.

      • Louise Kane says:

        or every state could enact a carnivore conservation act that prohibits wildlife killing contests….

  82. Nancy says:

    “Bradley says that in the long run the strategy of removing a pack of wolves earlier actually ends up killing fewer wolves”

    And if nothing else? It is certainly a guarantee that there will be no other wolves in the area, for awhile, until another pack or dispersing wolves, move into fill the void.

    Not sure if anyone else is looking at the totals (Montana weekly wolf reports) but they seem to be a little off. The number of cattle (confirmed kills) is just about where it was last year (around 30 and of course, most all in the same areas, year after year, after year, if you follow the reports)

    But hey, its not about wildlife, its about WS catering to ranching (and hunting) interests.

    2014 was a tough year for “problem” wolves (45 killed just by WS) Didn’t include wolves killed by hunting, trapping, accidental death or shot by landowner, but its curious to note, WS claims just 14 “problem” wolves removed in the year 2015 (for killing livestock) yet I get a total of 28 (if you look thru the PDF file for 2015)

    Maybe someone with computer spread sheet capabilities, can make better sense of these totals.

    And, maybe could compare the “known” packs 2014 from a few years before? (they’d been assigned names over the years – Jeff Davis, Trapper Peak, Garden Creek, Ninemile, etc.)

    These wolves did relatively little damage (I mean we’re talking 30+ cows and a handful of sheep, confirmed kills by wolves in the entire state of Montana? ) to the packs now labeled “unknown, unknown, unknown) that may have taken over many of these areas thru 2015, and still little livestock losses, where there were once established packs till they were perhaps now being killed off by “Bradley’s strategy?”

    And please forgive me for ranting but I live smack dab in the middle of this BS 🙂

  83. Immer Treue says:

    Judge deems Idaho legislators used ‘animus’ toward animal activists.

  84. Ida Lupines says:

    Idaho wolves continue to exceed the minimum.

    This is another misleading article about wolves. Firslty, these wolves are not “Idaho’s”; they migrate, theoretically at least, throughout the continent.

    Secondly – somebody correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that Idaho’s ‘minimum number’ is not scientifically derived nor based on the genetic health of the animals (is anything ever?) My understanding is that it is a political, social tolerance arrived-at number, without which the reintroduction program would never have been agreed to (and Idaho’s ‘minimum number’ would be zero)? We all know the science says a much higher number is healthy and desirable, and the ethical thing thing to do.

    As far as elk herds rebounding – I’m not sure what to believe. One article will say too many, so that people are shooting into herds and wasting them; another will say too few. Do we want to have elk farms? Surely humans parasitizing other living things for money is immoral?

    As far as depredation on livestock – the percentage is very, very low, and, I believe, the cost of doing business. How often does this have to be reiterated? (as often as it takes, I guess.) Trying to eliminate all risk is not realistic, and killing to do it is immoral.

    Finally, how long do we want to continue making wildlife decisions based on Euro-American folk tales, irrational fears, and superstition, well into the 21st century and beyond?

    • Ida Lupines says:

      Forgot to add: As we all know (ad nauseam lately), ranchers are very well compensated for the risks they assume. Remedies are already in place to compensate for livestock losses of all kinds, they have government exterminators at their beck and call for all kinds of wildlife, grazing fees are kept very low, etc. Others businesses are not so lucky.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      Well, the Constitution isn’t only a document for the Bundys! 😉

    • Immer Treue says:

      “The National Park Service is scheduled to capture and facilitate the killing of up to 900 bison inside Yellowstone Park starting on February 15, 2016. During the capture and kill operation, the Park Service closes parts of the park to public access.”

      Impossible, as wolf, elk, moose and bison expert Don Peay says in “The Real Wolf”

      “Well, as we now know, there has been an 80% reduction in the greater Yellowstone elk herds, moose are for all practical purposes gone from Yellowstone, and now the bison are the final prey… and they are declining as well”.

  85. Nancy says:

    • Ida Lupines says:

      This is beautiful, Nancy. Hopefully we will see them come back to more of their natural range.

    • Immer Treue says:

      My, but wouldn’t that look fine on someone’s wall!

      • JEFF E says:

        I believe you could copy and past to an office program and then print it out on some photo quality paper.

  86. Barb Rupers says:

    Thanks, Nancy; appreciated the song and video. Your knowledge and depth always impress.

    • Nancy says:

      Barb, the interview Circa 1975/1976 with Buddy Red Bow, was also well worth the watch. Very interesting & dedicated singer/songwriter.

  87. Cody Coyote says:

    – just when you thought the Wingnut Brothers Barnum Bunkum Bundy and Ringaling Malheur Wildlife Refuge Occupation circus could not get any weirder, along comes this actuality:

    Please don’t shoot the messenger ( me )

  88. Yvette says:

    Outside of the U.S., but another species is near extinction.

  89. Kevin Jamison says:

    Ammon Bundy Arrested, Follower Killed, During Confrontation With Law Enforcement In Oregon
    Killed was Robert “LaVoy” Finicum, who had acted as spokesman for the militants.
    01/26/2016 09:56 pm ET | Updated 16 minutes ago

    • Salle says:

      That’s not all of them, today the rest are prepping for a shootout, the roads are now blocked though media personnel are still on the property too. One made a video challenging the feds to shoot him.

      • Immer Treue says:

        Hopefully power/water turned off to compound. Total isolation deprivation and cold.

      • Ida Lupines says:

        Sad that it had to turn out this way. Nobody wants anyone to get hurt. 🙁

  90. Kathleen says:

    Apparently a live feed from the militants:

  91. Nancy says:

    Nice group of buffalo hanging out by north entrance Yellowstone this morning (click on North Entrance Electric Peak webcam)

    • skyrim says:

      Thanks for the heads up Nancy.
      Hard to understand the chaos that awaits these peaceful animals a few miles to the north.

  92. rork says:

    Oregonlive has several new Malheur articles, as everyone interested probably has noticed. 3 more in custody. 5 remaining trying to make deals. I hope Mal will save a few bucks soon, hopefully without violence.

    • Yvette says:

      “We’re asking them to just drop the charges,” Fry said. “And nobody dies.”

      He said those remaining were willing to have their weapons checked by police as they leave to ensure they aren’t stolen.

      “We’re being reasonable,” Fry said.

      Without the charge being dropped, the remaining occupiers will stay at the refuge, Fry said.

      “Are they really going to kill five people for refusing to drop a charge?” Fry asked.

      How convenient. How convenient that many in this group of lawbreakers are allowed to simply leave. “Hey you took over federal property; attempted to intimidate with weapons; destroyed structures on the property; plowed roads in an area that is likely on the national wetland inventory list; trampled Paiute cultural lands with sensitive areas; riffled through Native American artifacts; and misused government property. But, if you’ll just leave and go home now we will only arrest the one with an outstanding felony. “Please with a cherry on top because we don’t want anyone hurt”.

      When has this ever happened to any militant group in America?

      • rork says:

        You left out asking for other to come with weapons.

      • Leslie says:

        since they now have the road block, seems like now is a good time to wait them out. They will get very hungry soon. Wonder if there is a way to turn off the power/water/heat too?

    • rork says:

      Sarcasm coming:
      After a decade of homeopathic wolf management in MI our conflicts are the lowest in years. Couldn’t because people are learning how to deal.
      If there are a few mild winters in a row (finally), I’ll be able to claim that lack of wolf hunting caused deer numbers to increase.

      • Immer Treue says:

        “If there are a few mild winters in a row (finally), I’ll be able to claim that lack of wolf hunting caused deer numbers”

        Good one, and a prime example of “correlation doesn’t necessarily represent cause”, that both sides of the wolf issue should take into consideration before running off at the mouth.

  93. Leslie says:

    Sorry if this has been posted already. This is a proposed bill in WY that would allow snaring and trapping of mountain lions introduced and supported by some of the most conservative self serving legislators in our state. Please take the time to oppose this odious bill.

  94. Yvette says:

    Bad news for endangered tigers and bears in China. I wish there was more we could do. Just don’t know what to do about China.

  95. Gary Humbard says:

    Good news regarding Yellowstone cutthroat trout.

  96. Gary Humbard says:

    Yellowstone NP Mollies in action.

    • Nancy says:

      Reminded me of the hundreds of TV nature specials I’ve watched over my lifetime Gary.

      Not of wolves though, who’s populations were once native to the US but exterminated… but prides of lions and hunting dogs in Africa.
      Both of which are desperately clinging to what’s left of their wild areas.

    • Barb Rupers says:

      Better killed inside the park by wolves than outside by Division of Livestock.

      • Outdoorfunnut says:

        Your comment just about says it all there BR. Animals before people.

        • Nancy says:

          A thought you obviously struggle with ODFN?

          • Outdoorfunnut says:

            I certainly don’t struggle with it! Not in the least! I understand that animals have to be managed and if that can be geared towards the betterment of man….all the better. Just think of the nice juicy steaks that will come of this! This is the way it has been for thousands of years.


            I just hope that the buffalo are used to their full potential and provide plenty to the lucky recipients of such a great renewable resource.

            You see Nancy I don’t have a hate in my heart for the sportsman (or wildlife managers) for I see them as part of nature as they have always been. I understand that predators were also managed for eons where man has evolved along side of them in harmony.

            • Immer Treue says:

              OFN/Reality22/and a host of other pseudonyms. You sure are free with the word hate.

              reality22 3 months ago
              Yup,…. won’t see an informative comment like mine above on their hate site where they hobnob with Ralph George Nancy Ida Immer and the rest of the cattle sheep and game animal haters.

              • Outdoorfunnut says:

                YOU make me smile Immer…. I see my studies have paid off! Do you know that since you have accused me of being Reality22 / 8070 / sam lobo. I have actually used (cut and paste) some of her/his w0rk? He / she has some interesting posts and philosophies.

                I’ll bet you DON’T know his / her handle on hunting fishing and trapping sites! Guess how I found out! …… Accusing me of being Reality22 has actualy been an awakening.

                good day! (the actualy is a great touch …. Ya think??)

            • Barb Rupers says:

              Everything for the takers; nothing for the shapers. Extinction is forever!

              Why do some of those that kill wildlife call themselves sportsmen while predators are accused of sport killing?

              Why are some animals called “game”?

              How did animals prior to the Cenazoic or Mesazoic Eras manage without man?

        • Ralph Maughan says:


          You got that one wrong. It’s livestock operators before bison and people both.

          • Outdoorfunnut says:

            Ralph, I love the Idea of allowing private dollars to retire BLM grazing permits. If that opens up more areas to the buffalo and bigger herds all the better. What I don’t want to see is another animal managed like the wild horses. The dollars wasted on that animal lies squarely on the shoulders of the radical animal rights groups. The absolute failure of the Federal Government and hand shaking with the radicals with regards to that species is abominable!


            Why is it Ralph that the damage done by horses don’t meet the same criteria and venom from some as it does with cattle? Do these horses not stop the aspen from growing or tinkle in the streams? Do they only eat the good grasses in contrast to the bovine? I’ll bet they even neatly file down into the streams to get a drink as not to disturb the fragile aquatic eco-systems. It’s funny how some can sit back and let ranchers collect tons of dollars for that program and are not OK with the human food producing ones.

            If wild horses and wolves are the shining star programs that the radical animal right folks have to show us as their accomplishments. Wouldn’t they be great for all wildlife?

            • Outdoorfunnut says:

              Ooops… forgot the question. Ralph, If you could, would you use the 75 million dollars wasted each year on wild horses to protect habitat and retire grazing leases….sending wild horses to the glue factory?

        • Barb Rupers says:

          As does yours.

          • Barb Rupers says:

            In response to OFN’s “Your comment just about says it all there BR. Animals before people.”

    • Ida Lupines says:

      I sure hope so – I’d rather see the wolves keep bison numbers in check than culling by the Park. If the bison weren’t killed off, perhaps we’d not have these problems, of wolves having to relearn their natural prey….

      They sort of remind me of cattle dogs, their behavior.

    • Ralph Maughan says:

      The Mollies have been killing bison now for at least 15 years. It shows the power of learning in a pack. The other packs would likely kill bison if they learned how. It would reduce this nasty human tradition of shipping bison to slaughter at the Park’s northern boundary.

  97. JB says:

    On the ethics of trophy hunting (and Cecil the lion):

  98. Nancy says:

    “Where emotional responses appear inappropriate, decision-aiding tools that encourage thoughtful, systematic review of information can also be used to counteract emotional biases (Wilson 2008).

    Such methods can also prevent one from being overly-attentive to emotions (e.g., attentive to
    the point of being inappropriately distracted from relevant facts or circumstances that merit

    In any case, if the root cause of an emotional response is injustice, then the appropriate response is to address the injustice”

    Agree JB. Good article.

  99. Nancy says:

    A little history AND IMHO, a good read, although not quite Wildlife News 🙂 Some good comments:

  100. Yvette says:

    A citizen loses two dogs when a coyote hunter kills mistakenly kills them. I hope this gets national attention so that more people will be aware of these types of hunters and how much the law works in their favor. The dogs’ owner is a veterinarian and even she said she was it was outrageous no charges have been brought against the hunter.
    It looks like she did everything correctly and the hunter is at fault. What a tragic event and how horrific to be forced to watch your beloved dogs killed right in front of you.

    • Immer Treue says:

      It’s all part of the mentality of quick, take the shot, or your target is gone. This is how people get mistaken for deer, and other game species. These People are in such a hurry to make the kill, they refuse to take that extra second to confirm their target.

      This reluctance to confirm the target, and as a result killing something or someone “accidentally” will be one of the reasons hunting will become increasingly scrutinized in many areas.

      Perhaps a poor analogy, but there was a time in the not so distant past that one could be stupid drunk while driving, and kill somebody. Then too, it was only an accident. No longer.

  101. Nancy says:

    I don’t understand how it could be a mistake, how many coyotes wear reflective vests??? Seems it’s not the first incident and the DNR did nothing then:

  102. Immer Treue says:

    Legality of evidence questioned in MN poaching case

    If this guy walks…

  103. Louise Kane says:

    Is there anything more wonderful than the diversity of life, and idiosyncratic traits of certain species?

  104. Louise Kane says:

    Ok not wildlife policy (at least yet) but can’t believe what I’m seeing

    Sarah Palin on CNN interview on asked whether Trump had responsibility to debate (not exactly the question but alluding to it) Palin gives one of those long rambling nonsensical statements about how Trump is qualified because he is a businessman. Her take, his no show in GOP debates absolutely does not reflect on his ability to govern.

    She is literally crazy.

    Trump is actually the number one contender for GOP nominee with Crazy Cruz just behind.

    The pre election arena seems surreal. If this party wins all of us and wildlife are in deep doo.

    Jeez this is scary. What has happened? It says a great deal when Great Britain debates excluding a US presidential candidate from entry into the country.

    we must look like fools to the rest of the world with that male strumpet prancing around his stage pontificating about nothing…

  105. Yvette says:

    A smidgen of good news out of Ethiopia. There has been a discovery of a population of lions in a region where they were though to be extinct. Apparently, it is quite remote with few human visitors; one more good thing.

    “In a context of dwindling numbers and local extirpation in several countries, this is a rare occasion,” said Hans Bauer, a lion conservationist at Oxford University, who led the expedition. “It may not be of great scientific interest, but lion scientists don’t often get to celebrate good news.”

    Bauer said the park’s remoteness and nearly nonexistent human presence has allowed the lions to survive. Lions in other parts of Ethiopia must compete for space with the country’s booming population, currently at 96 million people and growing by some 2 million every year.

    I’ll celebrate any and all good news for wildlife.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      🙂 What a beauty she is!

      I hope we can protect them from trophy hunters – I always have mixed feelings when I read news like this.

  106. Ida Lupines says:

    ODFN, do you believe that modern humans can supplant(!) the natural ecological functions of nature that have worked beautifully by evolving and adapting for millions of years, such as fire and predators? How do we allow for mistakes as we stumble along the way, in an already over-pressured environment?

    Wild horses, besides only numbering in the tens of thousands, where cattle number in the tens of millions and growing as our world population increases – graze differently. Herd animals and the grasslands they feed upon, and predators that follow them, evolved to be constantly on the move, not confined to the ridiculously small areas we deign to keep them to.

    Cheatgrass says it all I think, and I’m cringing as I watch us just spray, baby, spray in response to every new virus or insect that we can’t seem to keep up with. Our exceedingly rare predators, which we seem to have an odd, idiosyncratic love/hate relationship with, will only live on as the names of our sports teams such as Minnesota Timberwolves, Florida Panthers, lions, etc. (Hopefully the ones that are racist holdovers will have gone, and soon.)

    Yvette’s post of the rare and sacred soft-shelled turtle of Viet Nam, where only 3 or 4 exist, was saddening – how did the numbers get so low, and are we going to be happy to keep the poor animal as a preserved museum piece? We seem to be.

    • rork says:

      Wolves and cougars are more abundant than a decade ago. It’s fine to be for protecting them, but don’t use the extinction argument, cause it’s a crappy argument – but you use it allot. If you want real things to worry about think coral, or some of our clams, where I fear we already have an “extinction debt”.
      As usual: We have 7 million domesticated horses, and don’t need feral ones for anything.

      • Ida Lupines says:

        I do worry about extinction, and I will continue to worry about it. It’s not just an ‘argument’; it is reality. Just because I haven’t talked about coral, doesn’t mean I’m not worried about that either. For the record, I do worry about extinction of just about every plant or animal that is threatened by the precedence of human activities, no matter how trivial.

        The American public would differ in their opinion about your dismissal of the country’s wild horses. How dull we would be without them – they have a value more than simply dollars and cents and interfering with the bottom line of ranchers. Many, I’d even say most, want the presence of wild horses on the American landscape.

        It appears to be only ranchers and development that want to rid the landscape of our wild horses, wolves, bison and sage grouse, among many others. Sure, we have many domesticated horses, I was even reading about a company that wants to clone them. Where’s the logic in that? It’s not the same thing at all. Rather than the Bundys as representative of America’s West, I’d rather have wild horses and bison.

        Bison, wolves and cougars may be more ‘abundant’ today than they were, but that doesn’t mean they are anywhere close to their former numbers due to intentional eradication programs to designed to remove them entirely from the landscape. That’s a misleading statement to say that there are more today – anything would count as more! Since the delisting, I would doubt that wolves are more plentiful in the US than they were a decade ago.

        • Mark L says:

          I agree Ida. I think just counting ‘horses’ or cougars or wolves isn’t the point….kind of like counting ‘fish’ without distinguishing which ones. Yes, there are millions of horses, but what breeds? How many are wild? differentiating cougars and panthers. What if we use the same argument with people? There’s plenty of them, but what about diversity within a species? As far as people go, what’s to stop someone from arguing against ‘feral people’? (aboriginal) Oh wait, we’ve already tried getting rid of those, haven’t we? I don’t like the slippery slope this could lead to honestly. I like diversity within a species, even if its not based on genetics alone….feral horses, ‘coywolves’ (see canid listserves for that discussion), savages, etc.

          • Barb Rupers says:

            Quote from Ambrose Bierce:
            “Aborigines, n. Persons of little worth found cumbering the soil of a newly discovered country. They soon cease to cumber; they fertilize.”

        • rork says:

          When you whine about possible wolf or cougar extinction it discredits you, and this web site. It’s dull without feral pigs in the woods too. And argument from popularity does nothing to show what is good or bad.

          • Ida Lupines says:

            Don’t be absurd. It does not discredit this site, it’s what the site is about.

          • Mark L says:

            Not sure of your point, but à subspecies of cougar (Panther) is pretty much hemmed in and failing in Florida, and its our doing. Same for a species of Wolf In North Carolina. Once again, our doing. Are you saying that these animale don’t ‘count’ because they are not what the public normally thinks of when a Wolf or cougar is mentioned? I’m not following you here

        • Yvette says:

          I’d like to see more citizens pay attention to the loss of amphibian species (myself included!) because, 1) the loss rate is stark, and 2) they are of utmost importance in overall ecology.

          Not as iconic as wolves and other mammals but in reality they are quite important.

  107. Gary Humbard says:

    News Flash, wolves aren’t “the smoking gun” for the death of moose in Minnesota. Amazing!

    • Immer Treue says:

      Brain worm and liver flukes, both vectored in by deer. The 1999 blowdown, in concert with a series of mild winters in the early 2000’s opened this area up for exploitation by deer. As the deer spread brainworm and liver flukes among the moose, they also help buffer the wolf population, which in turn put more pressure on moose.

      The winters of 2012/13 and 2013/14 put the whammy on deer up here, and with both fewer deer and moose, the wolf population in the moose study area declined. Mech attested to wolf decline in the moose economy area, last November.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      People will still blame wolves, regardless of any evidence to the contrary – but facts like these needs to be hammered home that they are not to blame. 🙂

    • Ida Lupines says:

      I hope they have the problem of the mothers abandoning the calves due to the tracking collars figured out. How many were lost because of that? It was concerningly high:

  108. Louise Kane says:

    Wisconsin’s out of control gun culture
    bill proposed to remove minimum age for hunters
    the state that allowed dogs to hound wolves….

    • Outdoorfunnut says:

      Nice try Louise…. All the bill does is take the state out of the equation in regards to the hunting age. This is a parents choice NOT the state. The state does not and never did have their nose into when a child could shoot a gun with the parent….ABSOLUTELY no issues with that right now. Some kids don’t belong in the woods at twelve, others would be more than just fine at 8 or 10! I’ll tell you what, you show me a case where the parent wasn’t held responsible for a child & gun issue at any age. BUT, first you have to find such a case.

      I’m beginning to think that parents that raise children to think their mCdONALDS nuggets come from santa are a bigger issue to animals than the ones that take them hunting.

    • rork says:

      Hard to figure out exactly what the law is proposing from such a slanted article, but it may be like ours in MI. So far, no big problems. In our case there are still age minimums on public land. Most people still wait until the kids are full-sized.

      • Outdoorfunnut says:

        I agree with the public lands minimums Rork with mandatory hunters safety certification.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      I don’t know what to say. Collaring wolves instead of elk in Idaho, now two wolves die in what should have been a routine procedure? What the hell is going on? I know that F&W is on record in wanting to end this program – but whose side are they on? I really am sick to death of our meddling – if we aren’t shooting the shit out of them, we’re studying them to death. 🙁

      Here’s a video:

      • Ida Lupines says:

        At the end of December 2015 the wild Mexican wolf population consisted of 45 wolves with functional radio collars dispersed among 18 packs and two single wolves.

      • Ida Lupines says:

        Other articles are saying that these two wolves are the first to have died during a count and capture since 2005! Have they changed the drug they are using or the procedure in some way? It says the same drug and procedure has been used for past two years, so obviously there was a change of some kind. One died only minutes after being darted, how awful. Cheaping out to save money?

        I suppose it is a traumatic procedure, despite how blasé humans can be about things like this. 🙁

        • Jeff N. says:

          At the end of 2014 the minimum count of Mexican Gray Wolves was 110 animals. As of now we know that roughly 40 pups were born in 2015, survival rate unknown at this point. We know that at least 15 Lobos were poached, 2 were killed while being tranquilized during the 2015 year end count, and numerous individuals are unaccounted for.

          And now Senator Jeff Flake pulls this nonsense:


          • Yvette says:

            Oh, so the name Jeff Flake rises again. This is the same senator who worked with John McCain to give away national forest land that was holy land for the San Carlos Apache to a foreign mining company.

            If people like Flake had soul they already sold it to the highest bidder.


            • Ida Lupines says:

              Surely this can be challenged, being protected land already? And again, what about water quality? When I’ve read about Flint, I’ve also wondered about the reservations where there’s been mining, and how has it affected the quality of the water?

              I guess there are much worse politicians than Richard Nixon was thought to be. 🙁

          • Ida Lupines says:

            I’ve wondered if one of the Bundy gang from Arizona was anti-lobo? Could there have been any retaliation? I don’t trust these people as far as they can be thrown.

            • Ida Lupines says:

              I don’t trust these people as far as they can be thrown.

              To be ‘perfectly clear’, I’m referring to thehe cabal of ranchers, their puppet masters in mining and extraction, and their political servants.

              • Jeff N. says:

                The Flakes have a long history of ranching in the White Mountains of AZ….the lobo recovery area, and LDS country (Flake is LDS). So yes, I can assure you he’s doing their bidding.

  109. Ida Lupines says:

    There will be increasing conflicts with hunting as areas become more densely populated. It’s only a matter of time before laws must change due to public safety and the safety of pets, despite the posturing by those who refuse to acknowledge that hunting has very little place in the modern world. Violence and the urge to kill sumthin’ for no reason has no place.

  110. Yvette says:

    Only 38 giraffes left in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Poaching has nearly destroyed the population. I knew giraffes, on a whole, were at a minimum a species of concern. If part of the poaching problem for giraffes in DRC is ‘impoverished people, I wonder how that problem could be addressed? Decrease in poverty would lead to a decrease in poaching.

  111. WM says:

    In 2011 the Yakama Tribe reintroduced some pronghorn on their reservation.

    The Colville tribe did the same earlier this week. Apparently this was a lot more efficient than having the WA Department of Fish and Wildlife do it because of all the environmental review and bureaucratic red tape. So, pronghorn, though reintroduced on sovereign lands of the reservations, will migrate throughout usable range in WA. Awesome.

  112. Nancy says:

    “Just knowing that this amazing cat is right out there, just 25 miles from downtown Tucson, is a big thrill,” said Randy Serraglio, conservation advocate Center for Biological Diversity.


    Well heck, lets just tell every “trigger happy” trophy hunter where to look for it.

    • Yvette says:

      Exactly Nancy and that is why I didn’t share it on facebook when I saw it come through my feed. My thoughts were identical to yours. “What are they thinking by letting this news get out?” Dumb decision = a dead cat.

  113. Immer Treue says:

    Wildlife Defense League Calls for end of BC Wolf Cull

  114. Immer Treue says:

    Wolves “””continue””” to thin Wisconsin elk heard.

    • WM says:

      23 elk transplanted from KY -17 = 8

      8/23 x100 = 35% reduction in the new elk herd [by wolves?] since introduced to WI in late August.

      Oops. That’s got to have the WI chapter of RMEF WI a little steamed.

      • Immer Treue says:

        Correction below. Check your math.

      • Outdoorfunnut says:

        WM – The Idaho wolf population went from 856 in 2009 to 770 in 2014 856-770= OR 10% over FIVE years. Folks on this site have cranial hemorrhaging at the personnel running the wolf program in Idaho.

        Then mock a 35 % decline in the elk population OVER FIVE MONTHS that WI is trying to get going in central WI.
        FYI the “continue” word that Immer is having issue with does describe the decades of wolf issues that the herd north of this one has been having in northern WI. The numbers on that herd are fairly clear.

        • Immer Treue says:

          Perhaps whitey should not have killed off all the elk that once lived in WI. You can also check your math on the 35%.

          • Outdoorfunnut says:

            Please take your time and read my post with your good eye. 23 elk with a 8 elk DECLINE would be 8/23 *100 OR 34.78% OR rounded to 35% decline!

            Thank you WI DNR sportsman and RMEF and your efforts at returning Elk to WI despite issues with unprecedented unmanaged unnatural predators proliferation.

            • WM says:


              Immer pointed out below, two were killed by automobile. So, my math was indeed wrong.

              DNR expected some losses, because wolves eat elk, and in some instance prefer them to deer. The issue will be trying to grow the herd, while wolves are present and acquiring a taste for elk over deer, especially during the calving season.

              • Outdoorfunnut says:

                WM I certainly saw the point Immer was making on the car accidents and MY POST reflected that fact when I highlighted DECLINE. The number one known mortality of these herds is by far wolves. When using those number to project the true mortality it makes it even worse. When you read studies on wolves you find that some of the unbiased biologist will come right out and flatly say that wolves will keep a suppressed deer herd suppressed. A case can be made that unmanaged predators is not “natural” when looking back into history especially around the waterways.

                • Immer Treue says:

                  Simple math:
                  23 elk transplanted
                  17 elk remain
                  6 elk died total from transplants
                  4 elk killed by wolves 17.4%
                  2 elk killed by vehicle 8.7%

                  And your suggesting I read with my good eye?

            • Professor Sweat says:

              “Thank you WI DNR sportsman and RMEF and your efforts at returning Elk to WI despite issues with unprecedented unmanaged unnatural predators proliferation.”

              And thank you WI DNR and WI sportsman for the use of about 4.6 million gallons of bear bait on public lands. That’s a lot of extra food for state black bears, which means earlier and larger litters. “Unnatural predators proliferation” indeed.

              • Professor Sweat says:

                I should clarify, that 4.6 million (give or take a few) gallons was in 2014 alone.

          • Jay says:

            My momma always told me, “stupid is as stupid does.”

            • Yvette says:

              🙂 > Jay.

              “Life’s like a box of chocolates; you never know what you’re gonna get.”

              and some are a little nutty inside.

            • Outdoorfunnut says:

              Your mom was a smart lady……

              • Jay says:

                You got that right, Forest.

              • Outdoorfunnut says:

                I had meant to include this because the number of those released differ from the 23 that WM I’m using 25 because that is what one of the officials that I know had said! This article says 26. The article says 17 remain. And it don’t matter!, around a third of the elk are gone and wolves are once again a big part of it.


                Some can try to muddy up the waters and call people stupid if they want to divert from the issue. I’m not buying or falling for it. Its still a big decline!

                • Immer Treue says:

                  Tell the entire story. You are the only one “muddying up the waters. And as WM stated WDNR knew they would have fatalities.

                  Also, you can enter brainworm into the fray.

                  Once again, your failure to read and comprehend the literature out their fails you.


                  Wisconsin and Kentucky officials trapped 28 elk and brought 26 back to Jackson County, where seven animals subsequently died and another four were born to bring the total released to 23.

                  Five died from a tick-borne illness, one was euthanized and another fell victim to birthing problems.

                  Total released 23 and,


                  Two of the elk recently released into the wild in Jackson County have been killed by a vehicle and a wolf.

                  An unidentified motorist is believed to have struck one elk and left the scene before a wildlife official eventually tracked its location off the roadway via a GPS collar. The second elk was attacked by a wolf, but the animal also had brain worm so the death likely was due to the combined effects, said Kevin Wallenfang, the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources’ big game ecologist.

                  The deaths came in the first couple weeks after 23 elk were released from their eight-acre acclimation pen in eastern Jackson County in mid-August. The animals have stayed close to the pen’s original site so far – which was the hope – and also have done well overall after being released despite the deaths, Wallenfang said.

                • Nancy says:


                  Why don’t they just throw a big fence around them, keep em safe till there’s enough of a population to shoot at? That is the ultimate goal here, right?

                • Outdoorfunnut says:

                  “literature out “their” fails you.” says so so much! I certainly didn’t have the time to find and read a half dozen articles. I spent the morning keeping people employed! One much wonder if you were researching this on good old uncle Sams wallet. My connection to the WI elk thing is extremely busy & I’m assured to catch up in the real numbers when she has more time. Thanks for the entertainment Immer!

                • Professor Sweat says:

                  “literature out “their” fails you.” says so so much!”

                  Grammar Nazi is the persona an internet troll acquires when their argument is invalid.

                • Immer Treue says:

                  Hey Nut,
                  5 minutes. You were the one who threw out the gauntlet. You are nothing but an excuse ridden empty shell. Bye.

                • Outdoorfunnut says:

                  So in summary:

                  The new WI Elk herd suffered around a third loss of which wolves are a big part of the losses.

                  Professor Sweat succumbs to Godwins law and out foxed by Forest.

                  Outdoorfunnut is actually Outdoorfunnut Gump and lived with the Indian and killed predators & animals for food as they had done for thousands of years.

                  Jay just may be a mommy’s boy???

                  and Immer has wolf thanatophobia an incurable illness picked up and propagated on web sites that put animals before people.

                • TC says:

                  Jeeze. 23 elk. Not enough to get excited about – it’s not a fraction of a minimum viable population, and at best, an experiment. A single stochastic event would reasonably be expected to extirpate a population that small. I’ve seen nearly that many elk killed by a single lightning strike in timber. Chill out a little… If WI really thinks they want a viable elk population, they surely knew that more than 23 would need to be reintroduced.

                • Jay says:

                  “and Immer has wolf thanatophobia an incurable illness picked up and propagated on web sites that put animals before people.”

                  Not all people–mainly, you.

                • Mark L says:

                  for reference, how many cougars were in Nebraska when they decided to start hunting them again? i’m with you…chill out till its at least a viable separate breeding population (maybe over 240)

              • WM says:


                If I understand correctly this is an initial transplant with more to follow, and something like 175 being introduced. WI DNR knows what it is doing with the effort. And, it knows what it is doing with the wolf population (notwithstanding a federal trial court judge from DC telling them they and two other WGL states don’t).

                Anyone know the status of the wolf bills in Congress to overturn Judge Howell’s ruling?

  115. Immer Treue says:

    From the Brandenburg Series

    And it doesn’t look like a coyote.

  116. Immer Treue says:

    Looking at your calculations, me thinks it’s better you studied law instead of math. 4 by wolves, two by vehicles.

    17.4% by wolves; 8.7% by automobile.

    • WM says:


      Thanks. I didn’t see the information on the automobile kills. Long ago I started an environmental engineering masters degree, but you’re right about the math part. 😉

  117. Gary Humbard says:

    Study on how to enjoy the outdoors and not to become a carnivore buffet.

  118. Yvette says:

    There is a good blog from Wayne Pacelle of HSUS on how the killing of Cecil the lion has affected the gathering of trophy killers in Las Vegas.

    Also, a report on the hunting of mountain lions in America over the last decade. There were 29,000 cougars killed. I will never understand the attraction to killing for entertainment.

  119. Immer Treue says:

    Front page on the Star Tribune

    Can Our Moose Be Saved

    Fairly comprehensive newspaper article.

  120. Ida Lupines says:

    Or letting northern forests burn to encourage the young trees that moose like to eat. Or choosing moose over money from timber and mining.

    Sad. But the above methods need to be acknowledged, as well as healthy migration corridors and protection from automobiles on highways? Bringing back the wolf hunt is too simplistic an answer, and only delays the inevitable, and one reason why our environment is so effed up to begin with. Then, you could lose two species instead of one. Let wolves take care of the deer and naturally keep the coyotes in check, as Nature intended. But you can bet the ‘difficult choices’ won’t involve people sacrificing anything – but dispensing with other wildlife.

    Minnesota regulators are also reviewing a proposed copper-nickel mine near Hoyt Lakes — and approval could pave the way for a brand-new industry in the heart of moose country. Last month, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said one of the lingering environmental questions the state must resolve is the mine’s potential effect on moose.

    There could be so many reasons why moose are failing – poisoned water and environment, confining them to small areas – I’ve read that migrating animals (and early humans too), were much healthier than those confined to small spaces, too much contact with humans.

  121. Kathleen says:

    Homo sapiens–the species that believes the earth is here entirely at our disposal and for our convenience– ours and ours alone to do with as we please.
    “Suffering bobcats, coyotes, owls spur Thousand Oaks neighborhood to rethink war on rats”

    Excerpt: “The insanity of it all is that in trying to wipe out rats they are killing the very animals that keep rat populations under control.”

  122. Immer Treue says:

    Wolf Howling and different dialects.

    Perhaps there is something to those Canadian Wolves. They end every howl with “eh”.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      This doesn’t sound like any gov’t or F&W operation:

      Palmer said the helicopter and pilot were hired by a number of people who were hunting coyotes on adjoining properties in the area. He said different passengers were taking turns shooting from the helicopter, and the crash occurred within about 1,000 yards of where the aircraft had been landing near the group of hunters.

      Explains why they didn’t have enough fuel, I guess. Utterly disgusting behavior. Is that even legal to do, hire a party helicopter to have some fun shooting at coyotes from the air? One of them as able to walk away from the crash. I hope they at least get a wrist slap. 🙁

    • jon says:


  123. Ida Lupines says:

    For anyone interested in preserving wildlife instead of destroying it, the Great Backyard Birdcount is this weekend! Counting not killing.

    Wolf Patrol has an article about a coyote hunt that is rather creepy. It’s hard to believe there are people that actually do these things. One hounder says he doesn’t care whether or not he kills a bear, he just likes to tree them, see what they will do, and then let them go. What a sadist. 🙁

  124. Cody Coyote says:

    So—Pa Cliven Bundy is arrested in the Portland Airport by the FBI when he attempted to fly to Oregon to show support for the four remaining Malheur Wildlife Refuge holdouts.

    Two questions: Why did it take the Feds this long to arrest Pa Cliven ? Why wasn’t he on the No Fly list ? ( many we know are on that esteemed list for far less than Cliven’s various transgressions…)

    • skyrim says:

      The intel on this guy was likely geared to a capture like it played out last night.
      There is nothing like a false sense of security to draw an idiot out into the open Perhaps minus his (one time?) body guard.

  125. Nancy says:

    An amazing video on eagles feeding at Conowingo Dam:

    • jon says:

      Those right wingers over there in WY are some sick puppies.

    • Cody Coyote says:

      Not widely reported but mentioned in the article is that the Wyoming Game and Fish department already excused itself from involvement in any wolf killing or wolf poaching cases after the Feds relisted them in Wyoming. But they still track down grizzly miscreants.

      I don’t agree with the former. For one thing, sources of information about wolves in Wyoming have grown darn scarce.

      • Ida Lupines says:

        Can they do that? I thought that was their job? They aren’t that independent of an agency, I don’t think. LOL Let’s see…what does their job entail….oh yes, keeping the elk assembly line for hunting moving along.

        I skimmed the report from Idaho, and as I knew it would be, it was a complete waste of time to read, just heavily weighted in favor of hunting interests. I didn’t print it, but if I had, I’d have thrown it in the garbage, and not wasted a tree in the first place.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      That first paragraph is so perverse. *shudder* It’s hard to believe human beings are capable of such horror. Just ewwwww.

    • Immer Treue says:

      Wow! Yes,,it is the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

  126. WM says:

    So Pa Bundy is held over from his hearing yesterday, until Tuesday next week for further proceedings. He has a Public Defender, and forgot his blood pressure meds at home, so he is receiving medical care while in custody. So, how much is this jerk again costing US taxpayers?

    In fact, how many tens of millions of dollars have the Bundy clan cost county, state and federal governments to spend dealing with their issues over the last few years, including the Bunkerville matter and Malhuer Refuge occupation, in addition to whatever subsidies there are, and direct legal proceedings and federal law enforcement expenditures, for grazing trespassing cows on federal lands.

    All totaled the numbers are staggering….the most recent public defender lawyer(s) for Pa Bundy…and this is far from being over, as there are likely more defendants in criminal complaints and prosecutions ahead for a number of participants.

  127. skyrim says:
    Have you seen this? The Elephants came to Dinner.

  128. Immer Treue says:

    Research now suggesting high deer numbers behind MN moose decline,12526?content_source=&category_id=7&search_filter=&event_mode=&event_ts_from=&list_type=&order_by=&order_sort=&content_class=&sub_type=stories&town_id=#comments

    This study needs to continue, but I’ve been saying for years that deer are the reason for moose decline. The perfect scenario was set after the 1999 blowdown and series of mile Winters afterward till about 2008. In a nut shell: more deer, more brainworm and liver flukes; more deer = more wolves and more pressure on moose; moose and wolves have shared this area for thousands of years, not deer.

    As I mentioned above, the study needs to continue, and one can rest assured,,the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association (MDHA) won’t be happy with this study, or the recommendations.

  129. WM says:

    Looks like OR is taking one step closer to the abyss, and a bit prematurely in my view.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      As long as they don’t open a hunting season on the only 80 or so wolves they have an hour later. Livestock owners have the means to snap their fingers and summon a helicopter assault, so I don’t think hunting is necessary.

      In current times, delisting has become synonymous with hunting, and it shouldn’t be that way. If a species has recovered, the process is to monitor them for five years following, I always thought.

      • Ida Lupines says:

        I’m tempted to cue up “Flight of the Valkyries”, but I won’t. Run, wolves and coytoes, run! Just awful, especially in modern times. 🙁

    • Yvette says:

      Well. It is Eastern OR.

    • Ida Lupines says:

      Yay! The California desert is cherished, and very beautiful. This will help Joshua Trees too, I hope.

  130. Cody Coyote says:

    Hal Herring makes the most sense yet of the Malheur Mess, as he calls it , with an insightful first person essay ( web only) at the High Country News.

    Worth a read. Herring was up close and personal with the main characters.


    My Lookback OverThought of it all : I feel a ” Made for Television” docudrama coming down the road. ( What would Sheriff Walt Longmire have done ? )

    • Barb Rupers says:

      Thanks, CC for the link to an excellent essay.

    • Immer Treue says:

      Great piece of writing.

    • WM says:

      For some who may not have heard of Hal Herring, he is a talented and highly respected outdoors writer. His works have including essays for the RMEF Bugle magazine. He often wrote of chronic wasting disease as it began to take hold about 15 years ago.

      Well done piece this time, too.

    • Jay says:

      Convicted murderers and felons, uneducated losers, and religious fanatics–and there are people out there that consider these human trash “heroes”. Unreal.

  131. Louise Kane says:

    talk about conversion
    go rowdy girl!


December 2015


‎"At some point we must draw a line across the ground of our home and our being, drive a spear into the land and say to the bulldozers, earthmovers, government and corporations, “thus far and no further.” If we do not, we shall later feel, instead of pride, the regret of Thoreau, that good but overly-bookish man, who wrote, near the end of his life, “If I repent of anything it is likely to be my good behaviour."

~ Edward Abbey